Jerry: 00:00:00

Here's the thing that had powerful impact on me, the late kid creditor, and

Jerry: 00:00:05

out of all the days in all the sessions all those years ago, I remember this.

VO: 00:00:09

Welcome to BRANDwidth on Demand, Your Guide to Rebooting Radio.

Jerry: 00:00:14

He said he was doing okay in Dallas.

Jerry: 00:00:17

Then he went to New York on vacation, went around the corner at a construction

Jerry: 00:00:21

site and on a chain link fence, saw a dead man hanging upside down on the fence.

Jerry: 00:00:26

And he came home and after a couple of days home, he realized, I've

Jerry: 00:00:30

told that story to everyone I know, except my radio listeners.

Jerry: 00:00:34

And it changed his career!

VO: 00:00:36

BRANDwidth on Demand rebooting radio with a different take on all radio can.

VO: 00:00:43

Now your guides through the Mediamorphosis, David Martin and

VO: 00:00:47

author of the book BRANDwidth media branding Coach Kipper McGee.

Dave: 00:00:52

This time, another episode of BRANDwidth Beyond Borders, to meet a

Dave: 00:00:57

radio host who was born in Manitoba Woo, but has spent much of his career

Dave: 00:01:02

in the US talk radio circuit After years of working in comedian music radio.

Dave: 00:01:07

He moved to the US and became a talk radio host at W P T F

Dave: 00:01:12

in Raleigh in the year 2000.

Dave: 00:01:15

Subsequently, he's moved on to KMBZ Kansas City, both WLS-AM and WGN

Dave: 00:01:22

in Chicago and WABC in New York.

Dave: 00:01:25

He's filled in for network and satellite host, including G Gordon Liddy.

Dave: 00:01:29

Mark Levin and on the Sun Radio.

Dave: 00:01:32

In 2010, Jerry joined Toronto's CFRB for weekday mornings.

Dave: 00:01:37

He's a regular columnist for the Toronto Sun as well.

Dave: 00:01:41

He's also published op-ed pieces in various American newspapers.

Dave: 00:01:44

Was a featured columnist for the Kansas City Business Magazine, along

Dave: 00:01:48

with being named the multimedia fellow with the Illinois Policy Institute.

Dave: 00:01:53

BRANDwidth on Demand is proud to welcome...well, he's a radio

Dave: 00:01:56

renaissance guy, Jerry Agar.

Dave: 00:01:59

Hey Jerry.

Kipper: 00:02:00

Hey Jerry.

Jerry: 00:02:01

One way of saying yeah, you got all didn't you?

Kipper: 00:02:04

Hey, we're glad you're here.

Kipper: 00:02:06

So for starters, Jerry, can you tell us about your transition from music to talk?

Kipper: 00:02:11

And just how you got where you are right now.

Jerry: 00:02:14

Well, I had spent an entire, seemed like a lifetime

Jerry: 00:02:17

in smaller market morning radio.

Jerry: 00:02:18

But I think the impetus for it was that one morning after the show in Knoxville,

Jerry: 00:02:22

Tennessee got called into the program director's office and he said, Why were

Jerry: 00:02:26

you talking about the school board?

Jerry: 00:02:28

And I said, You know, there are a bunch of idiots.

Jerry: 00:02:30

And he said, Well, they are a bunch of idiots, but that's not what we do, . And,

Jerry: 00:02:34

and then after a pause, he said, You know, you probably would be able to do talk.

Jerry: 00:02:38

. And that kind of put it in my head and, and I had become a fan of Rush, so it

Jerry: 00:02:43

wasn't like I'd never heard of it before.

Jerry: 00:02:45

Mm-hmm.

Jerry: 00:02:45

and then they relieved me of my duties in Knoxville.

Jerry: 00:02:48

And so I determined over the few months that they had to still pay me, that I

Jerry: 00:02:52

would either get a talk radio job or I would quit the business altogether.

Jerry: 00:02:55

Cause I was gonna age out of getting new morning shows, you know?

Jerry: 00:02:58

And luckily I ended up in Raleigh and then I went Raleigh, Kansas

Jerry: 00:03:02

City in Chicago to work with you.

Jerry: 00:03:03

Kipper.

Jerry: 00:03:04

Yeah.

Jerry: 00:03:04

And the other things and, And you started thinking, I should have done this sooner.

Dave: 00:03:08

Yeah.

Dave: 00:03:09

Well, one of the things that's made you a real standout.

Dave: 00:03:12

Internationally renowned is your ability to really tell a story to

Dave: 00:03:16

make the listener feel what you're talking about, not just hear it.

Dave: 00:03:20

And what are some of the elements of creating a story for radio

Dave: 00:03:23

that you wanna pass on Jerry?

Jerry: 00:03:25

I think that the first thing you have to understand is

Jerry: 00:03:28

what is the point of this story?

Jerry: 00:03:29

If you couldn't have the point of the story in one sentence in your

Jerry: 00:03:32

head, the kind of thing you could use as a tease for the story, then

Jerry: 00:03:36

you're not ready to tell the story.

Jerry: 00:03:37

Most people can't tell a.

Jerry: 00:03:39

But think about it, what's the first thing that happens in our lives once we

Jerry: 00:03:44

start to be, you know, somewhat sentient?

Jerry: 00:03:46

As little kids, we get hauled up on the lap of usually a parent or an

Jerry: 00:03:50

older sibling, and they read us a book.

Jerry: 00:03:52

They tell us a story, and radio, television, movies.

Jerry: 00:03:57

Books, magazines, newspapers, it, we're being told stories all day long.

Jerry: 00:04:02

And if you can stand out with your ability to tell somebody a story as opposed to

Jerry: 00:04:08

just, I don't know, generic radio liners, you'll connect emotionally with the

Jerry: 00:04:12

listener cuz we all want to hear a story

Kipper: 00:04:14

spot on.

Kipper: 00:04:16

So, in doing that question is, have you found any secrets or tips to help radio

Kipper: 00:04:21

host get to that meat of the story to that one liner and clarify the moral or the

Kipper: 00:04:27

message that goes with it and make the most of the time they have to tell it.

Kipper: 00:04:33

Regardless

Jerry: 00:04:34

of format, I think radio is a very emotional medium.

Jerry: 00:04:38

And so what's the emotion that your story is trying to evoke?

Jerry: 00:04:42

Are you trying to get people ticked off at a counselor or a government?

Jerry: 00:04:45

Do you have a story that will make them ticked off?

Jerry: 00:04:47

Are you trying to make somebody cry?

Jerry: 00:04:49

Can you do that?

Jerry: 00:04:50

Are you trying to make somebody laugh and you can make people laugh

Jerry: 00:04:53

because you are, you're really funny.

Jerry: 00:04:55

Or you can make people, uh, laugh in, in a different kind of way.

Jerry: 00:04:58

Like they're, they're just amused the kind of way.

Jerry: 00:05:01

I might tell you a story while we're sitting at the broad stop kiper,

Jerry: 00:05:04

and I'll tell you something, and you don't fall off your chair laughing.

Jerry: 00:05:07

You just kind of chuckle and it then, you know, it's the bonding

Jerry: 00:05:09

exercise and so that bonding exercise can happen with listeners.

Jerry: 00:05:14

In fact, here's the thing that had powerful impact on me.

Jerry: 00:05:17

And it came from a guy maybe you guys know or know of the late kid crowd.

Jerry: 00:05:21

Sure.

Jerry: 00:05:21

And yeah, he was dominant in Dallas and he ran a morning show

Jerry: 00:05:25

bootcamp thing I used to go to.

Jerry: 00:05:27

And out of all the days and all the sessions all those years ago, I

Jerry: 00:05:31

remember this, he said he was doing okay in Dallas and he would do what

Jerry: 00:05:36

you would normally do on the radio, did entertainment, news, yada yada.

Jerry: 00:05:39

Then he went to New York on vacation, went around the corner at a construction.

Jerry: 00:05:45

On a chain link fence, saw a dead man hanging upside down on the

Jerry: 00:05:48

fence, and he came home and after a couple of days home, he realized,

Jerry: 00:05:53

I've told that story to everyone I know, except my radio listeners.

Jerry: 00:05:57

He told his radio listeners and it changed his career because people

Jerry: 00:06:01

don't care that Kim Kardashian and broke up with Pete Davidson.

Jerry: 00:06:04

They don't go home to talk about that.

Jerry: 00:06:06

But what would you tell your friends?

Jerry: 00:06:08

Well then tell your listeners and they'll be your.

Dave: 00:06:10

That's a great point, Jerry.

Dave: 00:06:12

Now how do you set up a story or do you set it up?

Jerry: 00:06:16

Sometimes I just say I did this three, four times

Jerry: 00:06:18

this morning on my radio show.

Jerry: 00:06:19

Let me tell you a.

Jerry: 00:06:20

I like to say that cuz nobody goes, No, I don't wanna hear a story . Like,

Jerry: 00:06:24

I don't think anybody says that.

Jerry: 00:06:25

Now, if you get a reputation about being able to tell a story,

Jerry: 00:06:28

you're not gonna last very long.

Jerry: 00:06:29

But for me, oftentimes I didn't even plan to tell the story.

Jerry: 00:06:34

One of the benefits of having been around for a couple of years is that, you know,

Jerry: 00:06:38

a lot of things have happened to me.

Jerry: 00:06:39

I've had a lot of experiences, I've had a lot of things collected in my.

Jerry: 00:06:43

And I might be talking about a topic, talking to a guest, talking to a caller,

Jerry: 00:06:48

and it sparks that little story in my mind that I think, uh, attaches to that.

Jerry: 00:06:52

And then I might just, we, the science reporter on today, and I said to

Jerry: 00:06:55

him, Let me tell you a story because it fit what we were talking about.

Jerry: 00:06:59

I hadn't planned to say it.

Jerry: 00:07:01

But he didn't.

Jerry: 00:07:01

And uh, his response to it was very positive to the story he went, Oh yeah.

Jerry: 00:07:06

And it became more of a conversation of a couple of buddies hanging

Jerry: 00:07:08

out and one of 'em happens to know something about bats or whatever.

Jerry: 00:07:11

He was talking about . Um, you know, you

Kipper: 00:07:14

shared a lot of great tips on what it takes to tell a good story on

Kipper: 00:07:17

Mike Handoff, but conversely, what are some of the characteristics of a really

Kipper: 00:07:23

bad storyteller, and are there any ways that they can fix things or any

Kipper: 00:07:28

tips on what they should try to avoid?

Kipper: 00:07:31

Okay,

Jerry: 00:07:32

so Kipper real quick, not gonna take too much of your time.

Jerry: 00:07:35

I just want to tell you this story.

Jerry: 00:07:36

See, this happened to me on thir, No, wait a minute.

Jerry: 00:07:38

Maybe it was Wednesday, so it could have been Wednesday because

Jerry: 00:07:41

I was shopping and normally I'd go.

Jerry: 00:07:43

Who the hell parents get to the point.

Jerry: 00:07:45

Yeah.

Jerry: 00:07:46

Right.

Jerry: 00:07:47

Like that's too much extraneous detail.

Jerry: 00:07:50

I think if you're having trouble maybe focusing your stories, I would

Jerry: 00:07:53

recommend actually do what they do in the editorial process in print.

Jerry: 00:07:58

Take your story, take a recording of a story you told, actually transcribe it,

Jerry: 00:08:02

and then sit there with the proverbial red pencil and say, What can I cut outta here?

Jerry: 00:08:05

What could I cut out?

Jerry: 00:08:06

And you might have told a story that's 300 words and find out

Jerry: 00:08:09

you could have done it in 150.

Jerry: 00:08:11

Mm-hmm.

Jerry: 00:08:11

. And it'll be a better.

Jerry: 00:08:13

Only the parts that make the story sing.

Jerry: 00:08:15

That's all you need.

Jerry: 00:08:16

Yeah.

Kipper: 00:08:16

Twitter was a big help for all of

Jerry: 00:08:18

us, I think.

Jerry: 00:08:19

Yeah, right?

Jerry: 00:08:20

Mm-hmm.

Jerry: 00:08:20

, it was, you know, I write a newspaper column every week and I have a word limit,

Jerry: 00:08:24

550 words, and invariably I'll write the column and I've got 750, 800 words.

Jerry: 00:08:31

But I think what makes the column.

Jerry: 00:08:33

Is that, then I gotta sit there and figure out how to say what I

Jerry: 00:08:35

wanted to say in 200 fewer words.

Jerry: 00:08:38

And when I do that, I go, Okay, that worked.

Jerry: 00:08:40

And that's an exercise that helps me on the radio as well, I believe.

Jerry: 00:08:44

Yeah.

Dave: 00:08:44

We're with Jerry Agar from C frb Toronto.

Dave: 00:08:49

Somebody you'd like to hear from.

Dave: 00:08:50

What?

Dave: 00:08:50

We'd love to hear your suggestions.

Dave: 00:08:52

Email us show at brand with on-demand dot.

Dave: 00:08:56

And

Kipper: 00:08:57

now we've got a new way to stay in touch and for you to get in touch.

Kipper: 00:09:00

We'd love to hear from you.

Kipper: 00:09:01

Just follow brand width plus that's brand width.

Kipper: 00:09:05

P L U S.

Kipper: 00:09:06

One word we're on Facebook, Twitter, Insta, or

Jerry: 00:09:10

LinkedIn.

Dave: 00:09:11

Coming up, Jerry, share some things he knows now that

Dave: 00:09:15

he really wishes he knew.

Dave: 00:09:17

Way back when.

Dave: 00:09:18

Hi, it's Gary

Jerry: 00:09:19

Berkowitz, AC programing consultant at Berkowitz

Jerry: 00:09:22

Broadcast Consulting in Detroit.

Jerry: 00:09:24

Hey, it's Molly Cruz, brand manager for W M Y X N W XSS fm,

Jerry: 00:09:29

here in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

Jerry: 00:09:31

I, this is Jake Neman with 96 7 cra.

Jerry: 00:09:33

Hi, this is Dave Tyler from Music Master, With even more raving fans.

Jerry: 00:09:38

Did someone say Music Master, Raving Fan?

Jerry: 00:09:40

Ding ding.

Jerry: 00:09:41

That's me.

Jerry: 00:09:42

Hey, it's Lee McNabb, operations manager for Saga Communications.

Jerry: 00:09:45

Des Moines Radio Group ready to join these raving fans.

Jerry: 00:09:49

Visit music master.com today.

Jerry: 00:09:51

They're always there and willing to help.

Jerry: 00:09:53

They save me every

Kipper: 00:09:55

time.

Jerry: 00:09:56

I'm a major fan.

Jerry: 00:09:57

Your station played out the eighties, never liked the nineties.

Jerry: 00:10:00

Finally, a solution for weekends that your audience is gonna love.

Jerry: 00:10:04

Throwback two K with me.

Jerry: 00:10:05

Chris Cruise Dick preview of America's first tribute to the early two thousands.

Jerry: 00:10:10

now@throwbacktwok.com.

Jerry: 00:10:13

The start.

Jerry: 00:10:14

We know now we wish we'd known then brand with on demand.

Jerry: 00:10:19

We

Dave: 00:10:19

are with the Star of Toronto and US Radio, Jerry Agar, Jerry,

Dave: 00:10:25

quite a journey and the biggest markets in the US and Canada.

Dave: 00:10:28

Under your belt, you've really done it all.

Dave: 00:10:31

What's the one thing you know now though, that you really wish

Dave: 00:10:34

you knew way back when you got

Jerry: 00:10:36

started?

Jerry: 00:10:37

The easiest thing to say, The hardest thing to do, it appears for many

Jerry: 00:10:41

people, not all, just be yourself.

Jerry: 00:10:43

It's so easy to say, but repeat.

Jerry: 00:10:45

You get on the radio.

Jerry: 00:10:47

I've known people who are hilarious in the newsroom or whatever, and then they

Jerry: 00:10:50

get on the radio and for some reason they think they have to sound like a

Jerry: 00:10:52

broadcaster and they, um, or, or that you have to put on a character as a disc

Jerry: 00:10:57

jockey or character as a talk show host.

Jerry: 00:11:00

Just be yourself because I.

Jerry: 00:11:03

Once you learn to do that, you'll be true to the topics.

Jerry: 00:11:06

What you say will, will be true and it won't change over time cuz you weren't

Jerry: 00:11:09

making it up and people will react.

Jerry: 00:11:13

I had a program director, um, I won't, I won't name who he didn't

Jerry: 00:11:17

like, but he said of this one host, He said, I don't believe him.

Jerry: 00:11:21

I think he just thinks conservative radio is the way to go.

Jerry: 00:11:24

So he's trying to make it up.

Jerry: 00:11:26

He said, and, and this was a liberal program director.

Jerry: 00:11:28

He said to me, I don't agree with the damn thing you say, Jerry, But the thing is, I

Jerry: 00:11:31

know you believe it and that comes across.

Jerry: 00:11:33

Be yourself.

Jerry: 00:11:35

Mm-hmm.

Jerry: 00:11:35

. Great point.

Dave: 00:11:36

Our thanks to Jerry Agar from C FRB Toronto.

Dave: 00:11:41

What a great guy.

Dave: 00:11:42

We have links to Jerry Station, c frb, Toronto, and more of

Dave: 00:11:46

his work all in the show notes.

Dave: 00:11:48

Just scroll down on your phone.

Dave: 00:11:50

As always,

Kipper: 00:11:51

our thanks to Cindy Huber, executive producer for putting this

Kipper: 00:11:55

all together and to Hannah be a Saia producer for booking and coming up next.

Jerry: 00:12:02

Hi, this is Holly O'Connor from Hits 96.1 in Charlotte, North Carolina.

Jerry: 00:12:08

And if you wanna figure out the secret to a long career in radio, you

Jerry: 00:12:14

have to check out my friends on the brand with podcast, because that's

Jerry: 00:12:18

where I will be explaining a lot

Dave: 00:12:19

of these steps.

Dave: 00:12:20

That's a wrap.

Dave: 00:12:22

What's happening this weekend in your town?

Dave: 00:12:26

We'll discuss that in the one minute Martinizing.

Dave: 00:12:28

Find it in the show notes at Brand with on demand.com.

Dave: 00:12:32

I'm Dave Martin.

Dave: 00:12:33

And

Kipper: 00:12:33

I'm Kipper McGee.