Episode 194
Music expert Sean Ross shares insights on reshaping radio for '24 🎧
In this episode, we explore the evolving dynamics of radio in 2024 with industry guru Sean Ross! In his roles as VP Music + Programming at Edison Research, and creator of the popular Ross on Radio Insight column, Sean is the perfect 'go-to' guy to explore the key questions we'll all be facing in 2024. Among them:
- Can collaboration with record labels rejuvenate radio's influence?
- How crucial are up-tempo hits in today's audio landscape?
- Is radio's influence slipping in comparison to platforms like TikTok?
- How will the radio landscape change with different music tastes evolving including the surge of country music?"
- Is revitalizing local stations with truly local programming – the key to sustainability?
Sean also explores the coming pulse of the Billboard Hot 100 and industry concern over the scarcity of new music on radio.
We’ll also explore how falling ratings and market share threaten radio's legacy, and what can be done about it.
Join us as we attempt to unlock these secrets of radio survival. The future of radio…and your career awaits!
Time-stamped takeaways you won't want to miss:
[1:59] Sean questions music beliefs, citing 2023 hits like Miley Cyrus's "Flowers" and Olivia Rodrigo's "Bad Idea," impacting Top 40 radio.
[5:07] Radio's evolving role is discussed. Sean notes its vital role to listeners, raising questions about its significance to labels.
[7:11] Sean anticipates changes, highlighting radio challenges and emphasizing collaboration with labels. Discusses reliance on platforms like TikTok.
[9:02] Sean explores the ideal radio station model, balancing local and national focus, and discussing their roles in the marketplace.
[11:00] Sean challenges radio success metrics, advocating a broader evaluation beyond AQH share, and suggesting a more comprehensive approach.
One-Minute Martinizing (tap here)
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Transcript
I hope that we have stations that are truly local, and I think the best
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:model for the rest of them is to become
truly national as opposed to fake local.
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:I don't think fake local is
helping anybody or fooling anybody.
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:Welcome to Brand With On Demand,
your guide to rebooting radio.
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:Radio needs music.
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:Radio needs to find a better way to
find music because having delegated
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:everything to TikTok hasn't worked.
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:VO: BRANDwidth on Demand.
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:Rebooting radio with a different
take on all radio can be.
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:Now your guides through the metamorphosis.
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:David Martin and author of
the book BRANDwidth, Media
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:Branding, coach Kipper McGee.
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:Dave: As we've been doing the past
few seasons, BRANDwidth on Demand
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:kicks off 2024 with the always
insightful Sean Ross for those
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:unfamiliar Sean's seasoned Radio Pro.
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:Having covered the industry for
years as publications like Billboard
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:and r and r, he then joined.
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:Edison Research in 2003, lending
his expertise to music testing and
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:surveys as VP of Music and Programming.
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:Today, Sean focuses on market trends,
format evolution, and how radio adapts
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:in the evolving audio landscape.
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:You'll find links to his
insightful Ross on Radio column.
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:In this show notes we read it every week
and follow him online at Ross on Radio.
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:We're thrilled to start the new year
with an always unique perspective
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:on the evolving world of audio.
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:Railroad On Demand is proud
to welcome back Sean Ross.
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:Welcome
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:Sean: Sean.
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:Thank you.
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:Thank you.
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:Always happy to start the year
with a clean slate, when anything's
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:still possible for radio.
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:Kipper: There you go.
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:Well, you recently wrote that a lot of
your longer held beliefs were kind of
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:shaken, if not completely sunk in 2023.
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:So for those who have not been
and following along at home,
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:which observations most shattered
your assumptions for that year?
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:Sean: Well, shaken, not shattered, which
by the way, is how I feel about radio.
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:Radio is diminished, not demolished.
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:And what has been shaken is two things.
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:One, Even though music goes through
changes, I always think that when
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:you put up tempo hit music, major
chords, not too hard, not too wimpy.
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:When you put that kind of record
in front of people, it works.
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:And when Top 40 goes through
a bad patch, it's because it
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:doesn't have a lot of that music.
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:And some of that music did work
in:
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:an up tempo hit record of the sort
that I'm always talking about.
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:On the other hand, Olivia
Rodrigo, bad idea, right?
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:And get him back to great up tempo
hit songs and radio did not jump on
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:them and if they are playing them.
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:But not really embracing them.
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:And it seemed to me that
those were exactly the songs
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:that Top 40 Radio needed.
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:Cool up tempo records from a cool artist.
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:And we're so busy playing all these
ballads that we don't know what to do
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:with records like that when we get them.
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:That was one!
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:And the other is that top 40
radio, even in its current
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:state, still sets the agenda.
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:Certainly, radio sets the agenda.
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:And you can't really
have a hit without radio.
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:But first of all, country has
more audience and more share and
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:more ability to set the agenda.
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:And it's not all coming from radio.
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:I used to think that if you had
even a phenomenal viral song
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:like We Don't Talk About Bruno,
it wasn't a hit without radio.
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:This year you have something like
Richmond, North of Richmond that,
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:gets to number one with no radio,
although people tried to play it later.
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:And it was a national news story, and
it was part of a presidential debate.
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:And certainly people heard of it,
so who am I to say it wasn't a hit?
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:Who am I to say what's
on the radio was a hit?
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:When the consumer press writes about hits,
they write about the Billboard Hot 100
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:now, and the Hot 100 doesn't necessarily
sound like any one radio station anymore.
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:But it sets the agenda, partially because
radio is not playing a lot of music.
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:And doesn't have a lot of music and
isn't so determined to set the agenda.
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:Anyway, sometimes they'd rather the
TikTok do it in the first place.
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:Kipper: Right, but to your point,
even when shows like The Voice or
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:American Idol are talking about
Perspective winners, they always
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:say, I can hear that on the radio.
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:Yeah.
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:It's so wired into our whole gestalt
that it really seems to be a factor
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:in the industry as well as in
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:Sean: radio.
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:Nobody flips out the moment
that you hear their song on a
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:playlist for the first time.
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:Right.
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:Or maybe they do now.
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:For the most part, the
excitement is still there.
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:Making songs for the radio, but we also
increasingly have a generation of artists
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:who don't even have that as a frame of
reference, not even when they were 10.
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:So it's hard for them to make something
that sounds like a great radio record
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:if they have no frame of reference.
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:Dave: Sean, what changes are you
anticipating for the new year, and
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:what impact are you looking for in
traditional music radio formats?
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:Sean: I don't know that
these changes will happen.
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:I have a want list.
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:I have things that I think need to happen.
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:And one is that I think radio needs
to find more music and needs to work
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:with the labels to find more music.
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:I don't think the strategy of let TikTok
decide, then if it gets TikTok engagement.
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:Then it gets streams, maybe it
will take it to radio, and then
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:maybe radio will deal with it, and
then possibly it will test power.
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:That's not working, it's left us with
not a top 40 anymore, but with a top 15.
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:Nobody tuned in to hear Casey
Kasem count down American top 15
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:and I didn't go to the newsstand
growing up to buy the Billboard Hot 20.
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:Kipper: Right, right.
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:Sean: Radio needs music, radio
needs to find a better way to find
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:music because having delegated
everything to TikTok hasn't worked.
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:And I hope that radio and the
labels figure that out in:
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:Yeah.
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:Other thing that I hope happens as radio
tries to figure out how it can still
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:do the things that matter with less
revenue and less budget and still being
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:heavily leveraged in a lot of cases.
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:I still very much believe in a model
where, in a given market, two or three
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:stations are local brands, truly local
24 7, so that if the train derailment
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:happens at ten o'clock on Sunday
night, they can still report it.
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:Kipper: Yeah, you're not voice
tracked with yesterday's news.
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:Right, absolutely.
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:Sean: Yeah.
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:Or weekend broker programming or,
or whatever, uh, or yesterday's
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:celebrity, I hope that we have
stations that are truly local.
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:And I think the best model for the
rest of them is to become truly
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:national as opposed to fake local.
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:I don't think fake local is
helping anybody or fooling anybody.
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:And if you look at K Love, which is a very
good radio station, and which obviously
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:has had enough money to be on a buying
spree for 10 years, part of the model.
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:I think it's that they are trying to
operate one radio station, not 200.
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:Right.
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:And I have said for years that KLUV is the
WLS of this generation in terms of being.
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:Yeah.
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:Right.
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:Right.
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:y'know, a big national shared experience.
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:Kipper: One of the columns that
I found very intriguing last year
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:was the one on whether ratings had
become radio's participation trophy.
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:So for folks who may have missed
that column, could you explain
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:what you mean there and what radio
can or should be doing about it?
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:Sean: Yeah, specifically, we
still tend to judge the success
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:of our radio station in share.
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:We look at the share of available
listening, and what we don't
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:look at is how much listening
as an industry we're losing.
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:That number is not published.
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:You pretty much have to
extrapolate those numbers.
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:You don't see them in the trades.
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:And by arguing about share, by
judging our success in terms of share,
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:we're only looking at what's left.
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:Yeah, I had a top 40
Program Director tell me
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:that I was making a mistake quoting
6+ when 18 to 34 was all he cared
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:about and all he got a bonus on.
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:And that may be true, but there are Top
40 stations in some markets that have a 2.
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:5 share.
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:And I don't know how efficient you
can be in 18-34 that a two and a half
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:translates to much more than that.
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:Dave: You mentioned that personally,
Sean, you've been spending more
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:time with classic radio air checks,
including those posted by LSB Feaster
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:on YouTube and Airchexx, noting a
level of craftsmanship and quality
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:that's less readily available now.
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:What elements from those thrilling
days of yesteryear inspire you most?
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:And how can those principles be applied
to elevate today's radio experience?
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:Sean: A lot of it is just the engagement.
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:A lot of it is that there is something
happening between the records.
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:A lot of it is energy level.
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:It's a lot of small things, but you
certainly notice a difference in effort.
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:stations have three contests going on
and somebody wins them and it's not,
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:listening for a national keyword that
you won't hear a winner with until they
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:give another national keyword next hour.
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:There was recently a retrospective of WLS
and WCFL, and some of it was people like
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:Larry Lujack and John Landecker and all
time great jocks and certainly, you heard
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:the kind of acts that you don't hear now.
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:But, in general, some of it was just
the greater level of engagement,
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:even when it was station business,
even when it was rote, even when it
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:was nothing particularly distinctive
by the standards of:
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:You just heard more going on, but you
also heard more localism, and you also
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:Heard more contesting and at the right
moment, you would let, I listened to
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:Dick Biondi on this WLS retrospective
and he certainly made it sound like every
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:teenager in Chicago was tuned in and that
he was personally aware of what every
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:high school and And the city in and in
Chicagoland overall was doing, and I don't
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:expect today's radio to sound like 1962.
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:Radio 1967, radio 1974, radio
:
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:didn't sound like 1973 radio.
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:1973 radio didn't sound like
60s WLS radio, and none of
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:them sounded like Chuck Blore.
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:I just think that we haven't
quite found a new template yet.
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:We haven't replaced creaky old
radio with anything shiny and new.
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:We just have Again, a diminished
version of what we grew up with.
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:Dave: Um-hmmm...U-huh.
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:One of radio's a students.
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:Sean Ross, somebody
you'd love to hear from.
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:We'd love to hear from you.
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:Just email show@brandwithondemand.com
or reach out to us on social brand with
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:plus on Insta, Facebook, and Twitter.
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:That's X of course.
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:That's BRANDwidthPlus PLUS BRANDwidthPlus
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:Kipper: And if you like
what you're hearing.
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:or finding value, please tell a friend
and be sure to give us a five star rating
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:wherever you download this podcast.
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:Dave: Coming up, Sean shares
one thing that works so well,
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:radio just stopped doing it.
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:COM: Music Master, less stress, more yes.
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:Hi, this is Jerry Butler
for the team at Musicmaster.
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:One of my favorite tips for classic
format programmers is to use
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:the breakable one day, one hour
offset rule for artist keywords.
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:It's not just for songs.
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:That way, your listeners won't
have the same sampling of artists
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:each time they tune in, and we
turn the variety knob up to 11.
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:Musicmaster.
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:Music scheduling the way it should be.
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:If you want to know more easy
ways to keep your station
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:sounding fresh, contact us today.
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:Learn more at musicmaster.
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:com.
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:VO: Stuff that worked so
well, we stopped doing it.
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:BRANDwidth on Demand.
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:Dave: We're talking to Sean
Ross from Ross On Radio.
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:Sean, what's one thing radio brands
have done successfully in the past that
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:works so well, we just stopped doing it?
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:Sean: I think the number one
thing that anybody can do at
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:this moment is address spot load.
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:If you look at KMVQ in San Francisco,
which is probably the most successful top
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:40 in the country, they have three and a
half, four and a half minute stop sets.
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:They have, only one hour in which
they, have even a typical heavy spot
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:load, mostly throughout the day.
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:It's a lot of music and very listenable,
and I recently made them a button in
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:my car radio, and when I punch them
up, they're in music most of the time.
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:Spotload is, the elephant in the room.
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:If you are only dealing with the listening
that we've got now, Spotload will allow
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:you to have more listening, just from
the people we've got, because you're
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:not making them punch out as often,
and you're not making them punch out to
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:three or four other choices that are
also running 10 minute stop sets.
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:That said, the thing that people haven't
done that they can do again is market.
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:And I don't know where you're
going to find the money to do
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:that, but if you don't ask for
the order, it doesn't happen.
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:People do have other choices.
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:People are not necessarily
aware that your station exists.
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:People are not necessarily going
to pick up on your format change
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:because they weren't listening
to the old station to begin with.
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:The thing that we can
all do again is market.
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:Kipper: Yes.
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:We're guaranteed of the
answer if we don't ask.
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:Absolutely true.
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:And isn't it interesting that the
one radio brand that seems to be
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:advertising at least through the
holidays of 23, is Sirius XM?
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:Sean: Yeah, the SiriusXM model
is dependent on marketing,
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:especially now, but.
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:It is interesting because we're not
asking people to pay for radio in most
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:cases, we're just asking them to turn
it on and maybe if we treated it like
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:they did, that their survival depended
on it, maybe we'd start marketing again.
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:Dave: Our thanks to Radio's
A student, Sean Ross.
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:We have links to Sean's Ross on
Radio and more all in the show notes.
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:Just scroll down on your phone.
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:Kipper: As always, special thanks
to our exec producer, Cindy
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:Huber, who put this all together.
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:And to Hannah B, our associate
producer for booking.
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:Speaking of which, coming up next,
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:Dave Beasing: Dave Beasing here
on the next BRANDwidth On Demand.
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:I want to talk with the guys about
my company, Sound That Brands, that
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:makes branded podcasts, and think
about how local broadcasters can
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:use on demand content to make money.
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:We've got to get this stuff sold.
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:Dave: That's a wrap, Kipper.
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:You'll need to invent your own
invention, and we'll talk about
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:it in One Minute Martinizing.
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:Find it in the show notes
at BRANDwidth on Demand.
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:com.
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:I'm
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:Sean: Dave Martin.
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:Kipper: And I'm Kipper McGee.
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:May all your BRANDwidth be wide.
