Steve: 00:00:00

Amazon had launched Amp, which was live audio.

Steve: 00:00:05

Mm-hmm.

Steve: 00:00:05

. And that was a big deal until it wasn't.

Steve: 00:00:08

And Facebook had gotten into podcasting and that was a big deal until it wasn't.

Steve: 00:00:13

But then there are other things that are doing really well, and one of 'em

Steve: 00:00:16

of course is podcasting, which had a very good year, although I would say

Steve: 00:00:20

the business is changing quite a bit.

VO: 00:00:22

Welcome to BRANDwidth On Demand, your Guide to Rebooting Radio.

Steve: 00:00:27

So we had a hot AC station in Des Moines, and there was a pediatrician

Steve: 00:00:32

who was on every Wednesday morning.

Steve: 00:00:34

It turns out that that was the biggest feature on the radio station.

Steve: 00:00:38

Why is that?

Steve: 00:00:39

Well, that radio station was targeted at young women moms, and we were

Steve: 00:00:45

hitting them with subject matter that was way more relevant to them

Steve: 00:00:50

than talking about Katie Perry.

Steve: 00:00:53

So if you are running a radio station and you have a target, what is it that your

Steve: 00:00:56

people are interested in that you may not be able to service well over the air,

Steve: 00:01:01

but if you could take that pediatrician and make that into a podcast and mm-hmm.

Steve: 00:01:06

sponsor it, this is the opportunity to talk to that demo and create

Steve: 00:01:11

programming that's relevant to them.

VO: 00:01:13

BRANDwidth On Demand,, rebooting radio with a different take on all radio can be.

VO: 00:01:19

Now your guides through the media Morphosis, David Martin and author

VO: 00:01:24

of the book, BRANDwidth, Media Branding, coach Kipper McGee.

Dave: 00:01:29

Steve Goldstein is a recognized leader in audio programming,

Dave: 00:01:33

in marketing and in management.

Dave: 00:01:35

He's developed tons of successful radio brands from coast to coast for significant

Dave: 00:01:40

broadcast companies, including NBC, ABC, all the while providing guidance to

Dave: 00:01:46

local and national talent in pioneering podcasting and voice first initiative.

Dave: 00:01:52

Prior to founding, Amplify his firm, he was a founding partner at Saga

Dave: 00:01:57

Communications, serving as executive vice president and group program director

Dave: 00:02:01

from the company's formation way back in 1986 until 2015 when he started

Dave: 00:02:08

yet another amazing adventure Amplify.

Dave: 00:02:12

BRANDwidth On Demand is proud to welcome again the world famous Steve Goldstein.

Kipper: 00:02:17

Hey Steve.

Kipper: 00:02:18

Happy first episode.

Steve: 00:02:20

Welcome everybody to the New Year.

Steve: 00:02:23

Wow.

Dave: 00:02:23

Yeah...well...

Kipper: 00:02:24

Season six for us.

Kipper: 00:02:25

Yeah, we're glad to have you.

Kipper: 00:02:27

So, Steve, as the new year starts, what are some of the key

Kipper: 00:02:31

takeaways that busy Radio people may have missed in your realm?

Steve: 00:02:37

You know, I did a post, I did a year end wrap up called

Steve: 00:02:39

The ups and Downs of Audio.

Steve: 00:02:42

2022 and there were 17 items there.

Steve: 00:02:47

Uh, not to go through all of them, but just ahead, a couple of headlines I

Steve: 00:02:51

think is worthwhile because like Amazon had launched amp, which was live audio.

Steve: 00:02:58

And mm-hmm.

Steve: 00:02:59

, that was a big deal until it wasn't.

Steve: 00:03:02

And Facebook had gotten into podcasting and that was a big deal until it wasn't.

Steve: 00:03:07

Uh, Spotify did a live radio, just announced that

Steve: 00:03:10

they're cutting back on that.

Steve: 00:03:12

And you remember Clubhouse, I mean, Oh, that was a big deal two years ago.

Steve: 00:03:17

Not so much now.

Steve: 00:03:19

But then there are other things that are doing really well, and one of 'em, of

Steve: 00:03:22

course is podcasting, which, uh, had a, had a very good year, although I would

Steve: 00:03:26

say the business is changing quite a bit.

Steve: 00:03:28

And, and I'm hoping that's what we're gonna talk about today because,

Steve: 00:03:32

The changes are fairly profound.

Steve: 00:03:34

And I sort of think in a way it's like the streaming business, you know, I

Steve: 00:03:38

mean, uh, every streamer, Disney Plus and HBO O Max and everybody, we're

Steve: 00:03:43

creating tons and tons of content and getting tons of new people to subscribe.

Steve: 00:03:48

And as they say, trees don't grow to the sky.

Steve: 00:03:52

And now they're reckoning with how to make money and how many shows that they should

Steve: 00:03:57

be producing and that sort of stuff.

Steve: 00:03:58

And the same sort of thing is happening on the podcast side.

Kipper: 00:04:02

Yeah, it seems that everywhere there seems to be that balance between

Kipper: 00:04:06

what do we invest in the product versus what are we gonna get as far as a return?

Kipper: 00:04:12

And that's true whether you're subscribing or trying to buy it by

Kipper: 00:04:15

being advertised to however the model

Steve: 00:04:18

works.

Steve: 00:04:19

Yeah.

Steve: 00:04:19

And in the podcast realm, I mean the model is, there's a lot of

Steve: 00:04:23

podcasts out there, ostensibly, there are a lot of podcasts out.

Steve: 00:04:27

You know, there's two and a half million or so on Apple.

Steve: 00:04:29

There's another index called Podcast Index that says that

Steve: 00:04:32

there are 4 million podcasts.

Steve: 00:04:34

What?

Steve: 00:04:35

Whatever it is.

Steve: 00:04:36

Only a fraction of those are active.

Steve: 00:04:38

I know in the radio business, a lot of people have said from, you know, time to

Steve: 00:04:43

time, well, gee, maybe it's too crowded.

Steve: 00:04:45

Yeah, maybe it is.

Steve: 00:04:46

But we did a study in the middle of the year and only 156,000 podcast

Steve: 00:04:52

and produced 10 or more episodes and produced a fresh episode.

Steve: 00:04:57

that week.

Steve: 00:04:59

Yes.

Steve: 00:04:59

So that's not two and a half million.

Steve: 00:05:01

That's not 4 million.

Steve: 00:05:02

That seems way more reasonable, although 156,000 is an awful lot.

Steve: 00:05:07

A podcast as well.

Steve: 00:05:09

Yeah, yeah.

Dave: 00:05:10

Well, Steve, you've noted that podcast opportunities will

Dave: 00:05:13

likely require a really, a major reset for a lot of broadcasters.

Dave: 00:05:17

In fact, I think you're looking into doing something with the R A B in

Dave: 00:05:21

terms of taking a real look at the landscape and what's happening and what

Dave: 00:05:26

challengers is that are, are ahead.

Dave: 00:05:27

What are you seeing now?

Steve: 00:05:29

Yeah, so we did a study at the end of 2022, uh, in the fourth quarter with

Steve: 00:05:35

the R A B, looking at local podcasts.

Steve: 00:05:38

There was a benchmark study, Erica Farber is, and the r a b people are just.

Steve: 00:05:43

To partner with.

Steve: 00:05:44

And, uh, so we, we thought, let's see where local radio is with local podcasts.

Steve: 00:05:51

And the answer won't surprise you that, that there are some who

Steve: 00:05:54

are doing it and doing it well.

Steve: 00:05:56

But mostly podcasting has been a national sort of thing, but.

Steve: 00:06:01

I, I think it's really interesting guys, because there are companies that are

Steve: 00:06:05

coming into the local podcast realm, not, I'm not talking about broadcast companies.

Steve: 00:06:11

So there's a company called City Cast, which is a division of Graham Holdings.

Steve: 00:06:16

Graham Holdings is the old Washington Post company.

Steve: 00:06:19

Oh yeah.

Steve: 00:06:19

Media.

Steve: 00:06:20

They own TV stations and they also owned Megaphone, which they sold

Steve: 00:06:26

to Spotify and they owned Slate.

Steve: 00:06:28

I mean, they've been around the podcast hemisphere.

Steve: 00:06:31

While, and they've started this thing that is a combo podcast

Steve: 00:06:35

newsletter, uh, initiative in 10 local markets ranging from Boise,

Steve: 00:06:40

Idaho, and Des Moines to Atlanta.

Steve: 00:06:43

It's quite the initiative and that's growing.

Steve: 00:06:47

And then there's a company called Blue Wire.

Steve: 00:06:50

Which is doing local sports podcasts.

Steve: 00:06:53

They have about 200 podcasts and they do them for each team, so n F, nfl, you

Steve: 00:06:59

know, N B A, whatever in each market.

Steve: 00:07:01

And these are local podcasts that are going ostensibly up against

Steve: 00:07:05

local porch talk radio stations.

Steve: 00:07:08

I mean, so I think the reason that, uh, that we thought we needed to benchmark

Steve: 00:07:12

this was because radio stations, as you know, there aren't a lot of

Steve: 00:07:17

people in the hallways these days, uh, don't wanna miss this opportunity.

Steve: 00:07:22

And at the same time, and I know Kipper, you and I have had these conversations

Steve: 00:07:26

over the years, especially on the lower.

Steve: 00:07:29

end, the audience is disappearing.

Steve: 00:07:31

It's not gone, but it's being fragmented.

Steve: 00:07:34

And Edison had put out a really interesting study, which, which I quote

Steve: 00:07:39

often, that right now as a fourth quarter, more people are listening to audio on

Steve: 00:07:47

a mobile device than an a m FM device.

Steve: 00:07:50

Just by a little bit, just by a little.

Steve: 00:07:52

But the trend is clear.

Steve: 00:07:54

And so if you're listening on a mobile device, smartphone, obviously you're

Steve: 00:07:59

talking about all of the choices that are in there, whether it's Apple

Steve: 00:08:03

Music or Spotify podcasts, uh, your own music if people still own music.

Steve: 00:08:08

But all of those things are choices, and that's putting pressure,

Steve: 00:08:13

especially on the lower demo.

Steve: 00:08:16

for radio stations and they're seeing their TSL off and their

Steve: 00:08:19

pump levels are being challenged.

Steve: 00:08:21

And, and, and I do wanna quantify that though.

Steve: 00:08:24

Radio still gets a ton of cue.

Steve: 00:08:27

So even in those demos, everybody is cycling in, so, so this is the

Steve: 00:08:32

opportunity to talk to that demo and create programming that's relevant to.

Kipper: 00:08:38

And speaking of relevant, I mean you, you've always been one to

Kipper: 00:08:42

talk about great quality content on whatever platform you are, but you

Kipper: 00:08:47

definitely are pointing out that in podcasting, like broadcasting, if you're

Kipper: 00:08:52

average, you're going to get crushed.

Kipper: 00:08:55

So could you dig into that trifecta that you've got?

Kipper: 00:08:57

Heat, Awareness, Discovery, and.

Kipper: 00:09:01

Not only what it means for podcasting, but how can radio folks

Kipper: 00:09:04

apply that to the air as well?

Steve: 00:09:06

Yeah, I think it's true of anything today.

Steve: 00:09:08

I mean, there has to be some heat.

Steve: 00:09:10

There's so many things that people can choose to watch or

Steve: 00:09:13

listen to or read or whatever.

Steve: 00:09:15

So you gravitate, people do gravitate toward what seems important or

Steve: 00:09:21

important to them anyway or urgent.

Steve: 00:09:23

Uh, so so that's what the heat is.

Steve: 00:09:25

And then the awareness is are you doing it?

Steve: 00:09:28

Who's doing?

Steve: 00:09:29

Where do I find it?

Steve: 00:09:30

And then the killer, uh, certainly in the podcast realm is discovery.

Steve: 00:09:34

I mean, broadcast a little bit easier.

Steve: 00:09:36

I mean, you know, maybe there's 50 stations in a market, but

Steve: 00:09:39

there's ridiculous, you know, endless infinite choices when

Steve: 00:09:44

you get onto your mobile device.

Steve: 00:09:45

And, and you can listen to whatever you want, wherever you want.

Steve: 00:09:48

But in podcast discovery is the problem.

Steve: 00:09:52

Is there a podcast that's appealing to me?

Steve: 00:09:55

If I'm not aware of it, obviously I can't choose it.

Steve: 00:09:58

So those are the three things I think that apply directly to podcasting.

Steve: 00:10:02

But they apply to broadcasting and everything else as well.

Steve: 00:10:06

And, and I do think what's critical in the podcast realm

Steve: 00:10:10

is people have to go find it.

Steve: 00:10:12

I mean, in radio we've always had.

Steve: 00:10:14

Great advantage of people, you know, just punching through the dial

Steve: 00:10:18

and finding stuff not so easy in podcasting, you have to go look for it.

Steve: 00:10:22

It's definitely a lean forward sort of thing.

Steve: 00:10:25

And so how are people going to find that?

Steve: 00:10:29

And more importantly, when they do, if they do, is it filling a need?

Steve: 00:10:35

And one of the things, uh, when, when I talk with radio

Steve: 00:10:38

people, radio groups, et c.

Steve: 00:10:41

One of the things I, I think we need to understand is that spoken

Steve: 00:10:45

word is a lot of different things.

Steve: 00:10:49

I mean, uh, if you're talking about talk radio, spoken word is gonna

Steve: 00:10:53

be conservative talk primarily, although it can be other things.

Steve: 00:10:56

Uh, if you're talking about morning radio talking personality, it can

Steve: 00:11:01

be a, a lot of different things.

Steve: 00:11:03

But when you look at the top 25 podcasts and Apple Podcasts only,

Steve: 00:11:10

Only two are political and it's loaded with other things, true crime

Steve: 00:11:16

and health and wellness, and just a variety of topics and interests that

Steve: 00:11:22

I don't think radio is targeting as well as it could or not at all.

Steve: 00:11:27

And so that to me is a fantastic opportunity for local radio

Steve: 00:11:31

to connect with their markets.

Steve: 00:11:33

And that could be about food, it could be about medical issues,

Steve: 00:11:37

it could be about local sports, whatever makes sense locally.

Steve: 00:11:41

So getting back to that

Kipper: 00:11:42

discoverability part of the equation, does that mean that s e is

Kipper: 00:11:46

still an important thing in searchability?

Kipper: 00:11:49

Cuz I've got one client, they're a pure play internet service.

Kipper: 00:11:53

But what happens is they find a lot of traffic comes to them from Pinterest

Kipper: 00:11:59

where they were just posting stuff and it, it's not LinkedIn, it's not Facebook,

Kipper: 00:12:04

it's not Instagram, it's Pinterest, and people are searching there for that.

Kipper: 00:12:09

So how does that searchability play into it as well as a

Steve: 00:12:13

discoverability?

Steve: 00:12:14

Yeah, I think that's a really important question and issue.

Steve: 00:12:20

You know, when I got into the podcast thing, which is seven and a half

Steve: 00:12:24

years ago, all of the conversations were about creating good content.

Steve: 00:12:29

Now every single conversation is both creating good content

Steve: 00:12:34

and that discoverability and seo, of course, is a big factor.

Steve: 00:12:39

And SEO is just, I mean, you know, there's there, there's other

Steve: 00:12:44

tricks and tools in social media.

Steve: 00:12:46

But in the first phase of podcasting, all you had to do was go out on

Steve: 00:12:50

Twitter and put a link in there and you could launch a podcast to your tribe.

Steve: 00:12:55

Not so easy anymore.

Steve: 00:12:56

There's just so much more noise and you know, nevermind the whole

Steve: 00:13:00

Elon mess going on right now.

Steve: 00:13:03

I don't complicate things even more, but it was already hard before that.

Dave: 00:13:07

Well, Steve, what are the most and least crowded categories of podcast?

Dave: 00:13:12

I mean, with all the other hurdles that radio has in front of it,

Dave: 00:13:16

the best advice may be choosing the proper category, would it not?

Steve: 00:13:21

Every category has a lot of stuff in it.

Steve: 00:13:23

Some of them are a little more vulnerable than others, but I think

Steve: 00:13:26

local radio needs to do local podcasts and there aren't a lot of those.

Steve: 00:13:32

In some markets there are, uh, TV stations doing them.

Steve: 00:13:37

In some markets, newspapers, there in every market is a

Steve: 00:13:42

group of independent podcasters.

Steve: 00:13:44

I mean, you can Google it for your market and you'll come up with, you

Steve: 00:13:47

know, uh, a community of podcasters in Raleigh or Indianapolis, and

Steve: 00:13:53

they're all creating content.

Steve: 00:13:55

Some of it's miserable and some of it's pretty interesting and pretty good.

Steve: 00:13:59

I would consider.

Steve: 00:14:02

Coupling up with some of those local podcasters because you

Steve: 00:14:05

have something they don't have.

Steve: 00:14:07

You have CU to promote and you have a sales staff to monetize.

Steve: 00:14:12

So if you don't have the ability to create the content in your hallways,

Steve: 00:14:18

and you may not, that's one way.

Steve: 00:14:21

Uh, that you can approach local podcasting.

Steve: 00:14:24

It may be harder to scale, but it actually might be a great place to start.

Steve: 00:14:30

Very smart.

Steve: 00:14:30

Mm-hmm.

Steve: 00:14:31

. Kipper: So you've mentioned that podcast

Steve: 00:14:36

We're seeing the trend lines from every source that it's going to

Steve: 00:14:39

outpace, broadcast by leaps and bounds eventually, but thinking

Steve: 00:14:44

shorter term for the coming year.

Steve: 00:14:46

What are some of the smarter ways for radio to get their

Steve: 00:14:50

unfair share of that revenue?

Steve: 00:14:53

Or can they?

Steve: 00:14:55

Well, I don't think they're gonna get an unfair share of any

Steve: 00:14:57

of it unless they get out there.

Steve: 00:14:59

And one of the things that, uh, we talked to the r a B board about is

Steve: 00:15:03

that, you know, because you want to get into podcasting, you're

Steve: 00:15:06

not gonna make money on Tuesday.

Steve: 00:15:07

This isn't like studio naming rights.

Steve: 00:15:10

It's work and it's time.

Steve: 00:15:12

And that's hard, especially now with.

Steve: 00:15:14

Many broadcast companies, you know, experiencing their own challenges,

Steve: 00:15:19

but, but this is part of the future.

Steve: 00:15:21

It's audio and the companies that do invest in it, Hubbard invests and

Steve: 00:15:27

its Salem Invests and it, others like iHeart have invested nationally in it.

Steve: 00:15:32

This will pay off locally.

Steve: 00:15:35

Over time, but it does require going into the laboratory and

Steve: 00:15:40

doing some science projects.

Steve: 00:15:42

And it also means harvesting some of the audio you already have.

Steve: 00:15:46

And what do I mean by that?

Steve: 00:15:48

So your morning show, depending on the kind of morning show you have, if you're

Steve: 00:15:52

doing a mostly music show and you're doing almost impossible trivia, I don't know

Steve: 00:15:56

that there's a big podcast in that for.

Steve: 00:16:00

But if you are doing a big talk show, you know, on a classic rock station

Steve: 00:16:04

sort of thing, harvesting the right content and making it available

Steve: 00:16:08

at a time that's more convenient for the audience, that's something

Steve: 00:16:12

that's really highly appreciated.

Steve: 00:16:14

And uh, yeah.

Steve: 00:16:15

And I don't think a lot of radio companies have.

Steve: 00:16:18

Invested in that or pushed that as much as they could.

Steve: 00:16:23

Sure.

Steve: 00:16:23

They've posted the morning show, but that's a three and a half hour file.

Steve: 00:16:27

That's miserable.

Kipper: 00:16:28

No, we're talking carpool karaoke on YouTube.

Steve: 00:16:32

Yeah.

Steve: 00:16:32

Well, look at YouTube.

Steve: 00:16:33

There's a lot of local podcasts.

Steve: 00:16:35

I'm gonna put that in, uh, quotes.

Steve: 00:16:37

There's a lot of local content coming out of YouTube.

Steve: 00:16:40

I mean, there's just another avenue to try and find stuff.

Dave: 00:16:43

The always wise and insightful.

Dave: 00:16:46

Steve Goldstein, our guest today from Amplify Media.

Dave: 00:16:49

Hey, somebody you'd like to hear from.

Dave: 00:16:50

We'd love to hear from you.

Dave: 00:16:52

Email your suggestions to show@bandwidthondemand.com,

Dave: 00:16:58

and if you're finding value in this podcast and our guest.

Dave: 00:17:01

Tell a friend every month we reach thousands of broadcasters who

Dave: 00:17:05

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Kipper: 00:17:09

And while you're at it, please give us a five star review

Kipper: 00:17:13

and get the free newsletter just scrolled on your phone to sign up.

Dave: 00:17:17

Coming up, Steve shares some things that he sees right now, opportunities

Dave: 00:17:22

that others may find hiding in plain.

Spot: 00:17:25

Hi, this is Dave from Music Master Scheduling here with

Spot: 00:17:28

another Music Master Raving fan.

Spot: 00:17:31

Did someone say Music Master Raving Fan?

Spot: 00:17:34

Ding Ding.

Spot: 00:17:35

That's me.

Spot: 00:17:35

Hey, it's Lee McNabb, operations Manager for Saga Communications

Spot: 00:17:40

Des Moines Radio Group.

Spot: 00:17:41

My mentors taught me music's.

Spot: 00:17:43

Scheduling on Music Master, and that's what I use to teach the

Spot: 00:17:47

young Padawans of today ready to become a music master raving fan.

Spot: 00:17:51

Get in touch@musicmaster.com slash sales.

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Spot: 00:17:59

I'm a major fan.

VO: 00:18:01

Opportunities hidden in plain sight...BRANDwidth On Demand

VO: 00:18:07

. Dave: We are with one of media's very

VO: 00:18:12

Steve, thinking about traditional broadcast and where audio is headed,

VO: 00:18:17

what are some opportunities that you see right now that station people can

VO: 00:18:21

take advantage of in this new year?

Steve: 00:18:24

So I'll give you two quick thoughts.

Steve: 00:18:27

The first actually goes back to my broadcast days and has always been on my.

Steve: 00:18:35

. So we had a hot AC station in Des Moines, which someone on this

Steve: 00:18:39

call may have actually been the program director up at one point.

Steve: 00:18:43

Guilty , and there was a pediatrician who was on every Wednesday morning for

Steve: 00:18:50

about 20 minutes or so, 25 minutes.

Steve: 00:18:53

It turns out that that was the biggest feature on the radio station.

Steve: 00:18:57

Why is.

Steve: 00:18:58

Well, that radio station was targeted at young women moms, and we were

Steve: 00:19:03

hitting them with subject matter that was way more relevant to them than

Steve: 00:19:09

talking about Katie Perry, and that has stayed with me the entire time.

Steve: 00:19:14

So if you are running a radio station and you have a target, what is it that

Steve: 00:19:18

your people are interested in that you may not be able to service well over the.

Steve: 00:19:23

But if you could take that pediatrician and make that into a podcast and mm-hmm.

Steve: 00:19:28

sponsor it.

Steve: 00:19:30

I love that idea.

Steve: 00:19:31

You're gonna connect with your audience in a way that you haven't before and you're

Steve: 00:19:35

gonna be able to monetize that podcast.

Steve: 00:19:37

Love it.

Steve: 00:19:38

Another area is branded podcasts.

Steve: 00:19:41

And that's going to the local medical center, which is spending good money

Steve: 00:19:45

on your radio station today and saying, okay, let's create something bespoke.

Steve: 00:19:50

Let's create some content that is, I'm sorry, both of these examples

Steve: 00:19:54

are medical, what came to mind?

Steve: 00:19:56

But putting on experts in a particular category could be quite

Steve: 00:20:00

useful, or it could be dreadful.

Steve: 00:20:02

I mean, it all depends on how well that's produced, but, but the opportunity

Steve: 00:20:06

is there for it to be beneficial to theaudience, and sponsorable.

Dave: 00:20:11

No, you could do it with a veterinarian, right, Steve?

Steve: 00:20:13

Totally.

Steve: 00:20:14

They have a better idea.

Steve: 00:20:15

Sure.

Kipper: 00:20:16

And too, it seems that doing it on demand will allow the people who

Kipper: 00:20:20

really are interested in that topic to access the information when they

Kipper: 00:20:25

want to, which will then reflect on the station brand, but also it won't

Kipper: 00:20:31

bore the people that might not be interested in the whole radio thing.

Kipper: 00:20:34

But to hear that it's there, Is it good for them to know

Steve: 00:20:37

Well, and we're living in an on-demand world.

Steve: 00:20:39

I mean that that is where we are.

Steve: 00:20:41

There is an expectation that content is available when I want it.

Steve: 00:20:46

And we've learned that from the TV side, and we now expect it on the audio side.

Steve: 00:20:52

And so the notion that radio can continue to just be linear is

Steve: 00:20:56

missing this tremendous opportunity.

Steve: 00:20:59

And again, as I mentioned earlier, you've got the mobile device.

Steve: 00:21:02

What are you going to do that makes you relevant on the mobile device?

Steve: 00:21:07

And it's not gonna be playing the same music that you've been

Steve: 00:21:10

playing, if that's who you.

Steve: 00:21:12

And it's not gonna be the same shows that you already have.

Steve: 00:21:16

It couldn't be something else.

Dave: 00:21:18

Wow.

Dave: 00:21:18

He is terrific, isn't he?

Dave: 00:21:20

Kipper that Steve Goldstein from Amplify Media Links to Steve's popular blog,

Dave: 00:21:25

Stein and more in the show notes.

Dave: 00:21:27

Just scroll down on your phone.

Kipper: 00:21:29

Our thanks to Exec Producer, the world famous Cindy Huber, our

Kipper: 00:21:34

associate producer, the award-winning Hannah B, and coming up next.

Kipper: 00:21:40

Music hits and misses from the past year, and a look at what might be ahead for next

Kipper: 00:21:47

from Ross on radio, Sean Ross joins us.

Dave: 00:21:52

That's a wrap Kipper.

Dave: 00:21:54

Everything old is new again.

Dave: 00:21:56

Well, it's the new year.

Dave: 00:21:57

We have new ideas for you.

Dave: 00:21:59

You'll find it in one minute.

Dave: 00:22:00

Martinizing in the show notes.

Dave: 00:22:02

I'm Dave Martin

Kipper: 00:22:04

and me.

Kipper: 00:22:05

I'm Kipper McGee.