Episode 177

What will Radio Sound Like in 2023? Guest: Sean Ross | Ross on Radio Insight

When it comes to music and radio, the one person our industry looks to is Sean Ross.

His Ross on Radio Insight is considered one of the leading info sources for today’s changing mediascape. Serving as Vice President/ Music and Programming, Sean is also a veteran of radio trade journalism at Billboard, Radio & Records, M Street Journal, and others. He is often seen at most radio conferences where he’s either a speaker, a panelist, or reporting on the highlights.

In this episode, Sean explores some trends that he sees shaping the radioscape in 2023. He also offers some interesting observations about things that worked so well that radio STOPPED DOING THEM!

Time-stamped highlights you won't want to miss:

 (1:52) Sean recaps the year 2022 in music, pointing out the most notable moves and a few format surprises.

(4:44) The Groundhog saw his shadow which means we’re officially out of the holiday season. As smart programmers debrief and start to plan ahead, Sean notes some very significant holiday trends – and radio’s impact from the increase of “all-holiday music channels” on Spotify, SXM, and designated channels on radio apps.

(8:01) Sean shares some of the biggest format trends he’s seeing for ’23.

(10:32) The hot topic right now is AI (Artificial Intelligence). Sean’s thoughts on how this may impact traditional radio stations may surprise you!

(14:56) If there were one piece of advice Sean would offer to every Music Director, PD/content manager or corporate music honcho… what would it be? He tells us!

One Minute Martinizing by David Martin

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Transcript
Sean:

Contemporary formats continue to struggle, but you,

Sean:

it's been happening in alternative.

Sean:

It's been happening in hip hop.

Sean:

It's starting to happen in the country.

Sean:

When those shares go, they elite and they don't necessarily come back.

Sean:

Welcome to BRANDwidth On Demand, your Guide to Rebooting Radio.

Sean:

The time is now.

Sean:

And yeah, I know how that sounds.

Sean:

That sounds incredibly Nike, but it's time for radio to take the lead and find

Sean:

and champion and devote some records and show its importance to the music business.

Sean:

Again, BRANDwidth On Demand.

Sean:

Rebooting radio with a different take on all radio can be.

Sean:

Now your guides through the media Morphosis, David Martin and author

Sean:

of the book BRANDwidth, media branding coach Kipper McGee,

Dave:

Sean Ross, no stranger to BRANDwidth On Demand and probably you.

Dave:

He's a radio business research.

Dave:

He's a programming consultant, a conference speaker, a veteran of the radio

Dave:

trade journalism at Billboard Radio and Records M Street Journal, and others.

Dave:

He's been everywhere.

Dave:

You can also see him at most radio conferences where he's

Dave:

either a speaker, a panelist, or reporting for his weekly writing.

Dave:

Ross on Radio newsletter, which you can subscribe to for free.

Dave:

Scroll down the show notes and find more information brand with on demand.

Dave:

Proud to welcome back Musicologist to the Stars.

Dave:

Sean Ross.

Kipper:

Hey.

Sean:

Hi Dave.

Sean:

Hi Kipper.

Sean:

How you doing?

Sean:

Lot to talk about, lot to talk about every year.

Kipper:

Indeed.

Kipper:

So let's recap the year 2022 from a music perspective.

Kipper:

What were some of the notable moves and were there any big formatic surprises?

Sean:

I think we're picking up where we picked up last year, contemporary form X.

Sean:

Continue to struggle for the first time since the early nineties, particularly

Sean:

in top 40, we're still looking at a top 40 format of three and four share

Sean:

radio stations in a lot of cases.

Sean:

But you know, it's been happening in alternative, it's been happening in hip.

Sean:

It's starting to happen in country.

Sean:

Country still struggles and country lost its flagship in New York this year,

Sean:

which is certainly gonna have an impact.

Sean:

Yeah, on radio listening, that said, in top 40, the music was a little better, a

Sean:

little better than last year, a lot better than two or three or four years ago.

Sean:

But we don't have the kind of artist yet that can singlehandedly

Sean:

draw people back to the radio.

Sean:

Perry Stales, clearly a star had.

Sean:

Mm-hmm three really good hits at radio.

Sean:

Had to play them all about once cause it didn't have much else to.

Sean:

That's, that's not enough to bring kids back to the radio and it's not enough to

Sean:

bring people back to top 40 necessarily.

Sean:

Yeah, especially

Kipper:

with folks like Taylor Swift releasing straight

Sean:

to stream.

Sean:

. Well, and you know, Taylor Swift was a great event for radio.

Sean:

And radio.

Sean:

Mm-hmm.

Sean:

has been very much involved in her success this year, and it says

Sean:

something that Taylor Swift, we've stopped worrying about what she.

Sean:

still matters to a 16 year old cause it's a 29 year old who is making

Sean:

the radio decisions right now.

Sean:

Right.

Sean:

Country I think has a lot of optimism about some of the new artists, Zach,

Sean:

Brian Bailey and Hardy Jelly Roll.

Sean:

All apps that came from the streaming and it will be interesting to.

Sean:

If that translates to rating,

Dave:

well, you know, we're leaving the 2022 holiday season.

Dave:

Sean, are there any significant holiday trends this year with the all music

Dave:

channels everywhere from Spotify to Sirius XM to iHeart, all of that.

Dave:

What's going on with holiday music on the radio?

Sean:

On the radio?

Sean:

It's interesting.

Sean:

It's getting even older.

Sean:

I hear more Bing Crosby than ever.

Sean:

This year.

Sean:

If you hear a version of the song, chances are it's big.

Sean:

Hey, Maria, Gary, right?

Sean:

Well, you hear Mariah, you, yeah, you don't hear that much Justin Bieber

Sean:

or Ariana Grande, although they have songs that straightened too.

Sean:

I heard Steve and Eydie this year on the first.

Dave:

Oh, wow.

Dave:

Day.

Dave:

I listened.

Kipper:

Wow.

Dave:

Yeah.

Dave:

That's a throwback.

Kipper:

Is that at the expense of new artists doing it, or are they just

Kipper:

not recording stuff like they used?

Sean:

new artists are recording stuff.

Sean:

They're mostly recording, you know, the old songs and they get

Sean:

to have the other version, right?

Sean:

Big Crosby has the hit version of, do You Hear?

Sean:

What I Hear, and then you know, the next version down might be Martina

Sean:

McBride, and the next version down after.

Sean:

might be Jordan Sparks.

Sean:

Mm-hmm.

Sean:

. Dave: Yeah.

Sean:

Yep.

Sean:

Yeah.

Kipper:

So has anybody cracked the code on artist and title separation

Kipper:

for the holiday songs, especially hearing songs like White Christmas,

Kipper:

six times in an hour or so it seemed.

Sean:

I spend a lot of time on the Christmas music logs that I do for radio.

Sean:

I joke that ideally, doing a log is like doing the crosswork.

Sean:

Doing a Christmas log is like doing Sudoku.

Sean:

It's hard to move one piece without all the other pieces being messed up.

Sean:

Yeah.

Sean:

And sometimes it's like junk.

Sean:

Yeah.

Sean:

Um, absolutely.

Sean:

You know, if, if you talk to some program directors, you cannot overplay the hits.

Sean:

I've listened to major stations, including some successful ones, and

Sean:

Winter Wonderland, various versions of it is an hour and 15 minutes apart.

Sean:

Mm-hmm.

Sean:

, I've heard, I've heard some of the big songs be 50 minutes apart.

Sean:

I've got, that's a mistake.

Sean:

I get a few more calls this year or the stations I work with.

Sean:

You get a few more of.

Sean:

, you guys play the same songs calls, but if you look at what the big city

Sean:

stations are doing, and not only are they older than ever, they're more

Sean:

aggressive about playing the big hips closer together, and you don't hear.

Sean:

that many, the new, so that used to come in.

Kipper:

So Sean, you probably listened to more different radio in the course of a

Kipper:

year than most of us mere mortal people.

Kipper:

So the question is, what are some of the biggest format trends

Kipper:

you're starting to see bubbling up?

Kipper:

And what do you think might happen for 2020?

Sean:

One of the biggest success stories of the year was the new

Sean:

iHeart station in Sacramento.

Sean:

KISS one was seven nine.

Sean:

It's basically next generation oldies.

Sean:

It's plane nineties.

Sean:

It's plane early 2000.

Sean:

and they've done so well that you know, as you know, as I speak to you, there's,

Sean:

you know, there's a news station in Dallas today doing the same format, so mm-hmm.

Sean:

, I suspect we'll see more of those next year.

Sean:

The biggest trend in music radio is music radio stations going.

Sean:

Alt 92 3.

Sean:

The, the, the alternative station in New York, 97.

Sean:

One in Los Angeles that was doing top 40.

Sean:

Mm-hmm.

Sean:

, W h, the country station in New York, k r t Y in San Jose, the country.

Sean:

You shouldn't move that.

Sean:

Leading the market and still got sold to Chlo and went Christian and went away.

Sean:

When those shares go, they leave music radio.

Sean:

They leave music radio and they don't necessarily come back, which

Sean:

in turn probably affects the number of people listening to the radio.

Sean:

It probably affects the perceived need to listen to the radio.

Sean:

And FM is was the big mall, 10, 10 Wind was at the point where it had to be there.

Sean:

if there's no alternative radio on FM in New York.

Sean:

Yeah, it was a two share, but it's a two share of people who are not necessarily

Sean:

gonna find another radio station.

Dave:

No doubt, no doubt.

Dave:

You know.

Dave:

Uh, Sean, you've, , reported on the experimental streaming, uh, station

Dave:

program by ai, artificial inte.

Dave:

, what are your thoughts on Mid Tempo Radio versus intentional train wreck segues

Dave:

like Bob and Jack stations, do you think that budget conscious operators so-called

Dave:

might be adopting this technology?

Sean:

Mid Tempo Radio is an online radio station.

Sean:

It was developed by a non radio person.

Sean:

It's an interesting experiment.

Sean:

. It sounds more like a restaurant tape than any radio station.

Sean:

, we know grocery store music.

Sean:

Yeah.

Sean:

And that's all they're trying to do.

Sean:

They're trying to put together a lot of, you know, mostly obscure music

Sean:

that sounds good together and.

Sean:

for what they are are trying to accomplish.

Sean:

I wrote about them and a few days later I had somebody tell me it

Sean:

was their new favorite station.

Sean:

Personally, I still like, you know, somebody being behind the wheel

Dave:

here, here,

Sean:

and you know, I still see a difference with somebody.

Sean:

Mm-hmm.

Sean:

be behind you.

Sean:

You bet.

Sean:

But if you, if you talk to some of the major groups, they will tell you

Sean:

they are using AI to make more of the decisions, whether it is what songs

Sean:

to add, you know, they have a lot of streaming data and somebody has

Sean:

to compile and make it make sense.

Sean:

, but I also hear about people who are trying to use ai, which is

Sean:

to say selector and music master rules to have more logs that you

Sean:

know are generated by fewer people.

Sean:

Mm-hmm.

Sean:

, and I mean, I schedule radio stations for a living, so of

Sean:

course I would be skeptical about.

Sean:

But you know, I type, you know, I type in a text on my phone and it can

Sean:

always guess what I'm gonna say next.

Sean:

You know, much less right?

Sean:

How to, that's true.

Sean:

It's gonna sound next to each other.

Sean:

How about that Spelled check

Kipper:

Yeah.

Kipper:

I often put D m n s p l c h k after.

Kipper:

Correct.

Kipper:

Something that doesn't need correcting, but

Sean:

yeah, that is, yeah, and it's like anything else, it, it's happening now.

Sean:

It's hard to tell what's better living through technology and what

Sean:

it, you know, it's, it's hard to tell what's owners putting a brave.

Sean:

Uh, the cost cutting that they have to do anyway.

Dave:

Well, how does it sound to you though, Sean, you're

Dave:

deep into the music thing.

Dave:

How does the music sound to you

Sean:

on this particular radio station on Mid Tempo Radio?

Sean:

It wasn't my music, you know, if it was just a question of is it seamless?

Sean:

. It was reasonably seamless, but I'm not just looking at whether the

Sean:

transitions are seamless, although Right.

Sean:

I care, I care about that a lot.

Sean:

You know, I'm looking at, am I playing three of the certain

Sean:

type of record in a row?

Sean:

I'm looking at the, I played this song yesterday.

Sean:

I'm looking at right know.

Sean:

Did you hear it coming and going on your commute?

Sean:

I'm looking at.

Sean:

If you're not commuting anymore, if you are working at home, do

Sean:

you know, do I need to throttle down and play some songs less?

Sean:

Mm-hmm.

Sean:

and be less aggressive about how soon, how quickly I turn stuff

Sean:

over so I don't hear it having a programmer's mentality and part of that.

Sean:

is that somebody would have to impart a programming mentality and

Sean:

we don't necessarily have people to teach a younger generation of

Sean:

programmers what we've learned.

Kipper:

Yeah.

Kipper:

So talk about those younger programmers and music directors, any kind of

Kipper:

manager, even corporate music, honchos, if there were one piece of advice that

Kipper:

you would like to give them as we.

Kipper:

Commence 2023.

Kipper:

Oh, what would it be?

Sean:

My advice is for the owners, but it's also for anybody who, who

Sean:

is still getting up and going to work in a radio and wondering what

Sean:

impact they can have, and it's this.

Sean:

The time is now.

Sean:

And yeah, I know how that sounds.

Sean:

That sounds incredibly naive, but I just read a series of articles,

Sean:

uh, mostly in Billboard Magazine, what article is, how about the

Sean:

record industry sped up with TikTok?

Sean:

They have been counting on TikTok records.

Sean:

and TikTok is supposedly not breaking records like it used to.

Sean:

Spotify today is top hits.

Sean:

There's another article in Billboard and about how Spotify

Sean:

playlists and apple playlists don't have the same impact they used.

Sean:

It is time for, for the music industry to try radio again.

Sean:

It's time for radio to take the lead.

Sean:

And try to find and champion and develop some records and show its

Sean:

importance to the music business.

Sean:

Again, it's still time for radio to take advantage of the trust

Sean:

that people demonstrated in them.

Sean:

Their covid people came for information and what they got

Sean:

sometimes was viable information.

Sean:

Sometimes it was yesterday in celebrity news.

Kipper:

Right, right.

Dave:

We are with the always amazing Sean Ross.

Dave:

We can all learn something from Sean.

Dave:

Hey, somebody you'd like to hear from.

Dave:

We'd love to hear from you.

Dave:

Email your suggestions for guests to BRANDwidthOnDemand.com.

Kipper:

And if you're finding value to this podcast and the

Kipper:

guest, please tell a friend.

Kipper:

Every month we reach thousands of people that seldom, if ever get to

Kipper:

attend a broadcast conference or summit, bootcamp, any of those things.

Kipper:

And while you're at it, we'd appreciate getting a five star review and you can

Kipper:

sign up for the free newsletter Just scroll down on your phone to sign up.

Dave:

Coming up, Sean talks about the one thing that radio did so

Dave:

well that we just stopped doing it.

VO:

Hi, this is Dave from Musicmaster Scheduling here with

VO:

another Musicmaster raving fan.

VO:

Hey, it's Tony Lorino from Throwback Nation Radio.

VO:

Whether with my syndicated shows or programming winning radio stations

VO:

in Atlantic, Kansas City and more, they all had one thing in common

VO:

Musicmaster, and I am so happy to continue to use Music Master as our

VO:

music scheduling software of choice.

VO:

I cannot thank the Musicmaster Team enough,

VO:

ready to become a Musicmaster, raving fan.

VO:

Visit Musicmaster.com for more info.

VO:

Stuff that worked so well.

VO:

We stopped doing it.

VO:

BRANDwdith on Demand.

Dave:

We're with Sean Ross.

Dave:

He is one of our favorite music people and just happens to be

Dave:

an expert programmer as well.

Dave:

Sean, what's the one thing that radio did so well that the

Dave:

industry just stopped doing?

Sean:

PSAs.

Sean:

I've been listening to a series of air checks I made from a road trip

Sean:

in 1987 when I moved cross country, and you don't necessarily hear

Sean:

people, people talking about local events, but you always hear people

Sean:

talking about, What's going on?

Sean:

What's coming up and charity initiatives and, mm-hmm.

Sean:

it's when that went, you know, there wasn't necessarily an excuse

Sean:

to talk about their markets at all.

Sean:

You know, I'd like to hear more enterprise, you know, people talking

Sean:

about the city, because I think what I listened for when I listened to

Sean:

the radio is to learn something.

Sean:

About where you are.

Kipper:

Well, it seems that, and it seems that there is that, uh, little

Kipper:

codicil that says we are to serve in the public interestthat seems to

Kipper:

get forgotten more than remembered,

Dave:

but, but Sean's right.

Sean:

Well, it's the kind of thing we go to conventions

Sean:

like to think we do, but Right.

Sean:

I'm, I'm hearing a lot more of it on these 1987 tapes than I hear now.

Sean:

And the flip side on these 1987 tapes, I have heard, , there's

Sean:

no celebrity news there.

Sean:

Certainly not yesterday's celebrity news.

Sean:

, this 1, 19 87 and , you don't hear about what Mark Harmon or 10 Olin

Sean:

or whoever was, a star that year

Sean:

, Dave: right.

Sean:

Was doing, , much less what they were doing yesterday.

Sean:

And of course you hear a lot of liners and you hear, a lot of the

Sean:

same jingles and you hear a lot of things that aren't so compelling and

Sean:

you and sound like a boiler plate.

Sean:

But it's interesting.

Sean:

The last station I taped on this trip was the Princeton University Station, W P R

Sean:

B, and that jock, I thought sounded very much like a college radio rookie when I

Sean:

was driving through, , New Jersey 35 years ago, I've, listened to him now and go.

Sean:

This guy knows how to talk on the radio

Dave:

here we go.

Dave:

Yep.

Dave:

There you go.

Dave:

Yeah, good point, Sean.

Dave:

Good point.

Kipper:

Yes, absolutely.

Dave:

Local flavor.

Dave:

Always a terrific guy with all kinds of really valuable insight.

Dave:

That's Sean Ross with us today.

Dave:

You'll find links to Sean's free, Ross on Radio.

Dave:

That's a great newsletter and more in the show notes.

Dave:

Just scroll down on your phone.

Kipper:

Our thanks to exec producer Cindy Huber and associate Producer

Kipper:

Hannah B for booking and coming up next.

VO:

Hey there, I'm Andy Summers from the Andy Summers show on Philly's

VO:

Country Station 92 5 XTU and coming up on the next BRANDwidth on Demand,

VO:

you can find out how to have a two decade plus career at the same station.

Kipper:

Perfect.

Dave:

So that was perfect.

Dave:

First take and everything.

Dave:

Wow.

Kipper:

You have done this before.

VO:

Oh, stop it.

Dave:

Yeah.

Dave:

Is there nothing she can't do?

VO:

Stop, please.

Dave:

That's a wrap, Kipper The daily.

Dave:

Well, yeah.

Dave:

Radio's a daily thing.

Dave:

It should be anyway for not doing it.

Dave:

We'll talk about it in One Minute Martinizing.

Dave:

Find it in show notes at BRANDwidth on Demand.com..

Dave:

I'm Dave Martin

Kipper:

And I'm kipper.

Kipper:

Me.

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