Episode 201

AI and Radio: Tracy Johnson's 7 Tips and 1 Secret Weapon

Legendary radio consultant Tracy Johnson joins hosts Dave Martin and Kipper McGee to share his insights on the critical need for radio to become more provocative and emotionally engaging.

Tracy emphasizes the necessity for boldness and innovation, but addresses the challenge of balancing innovation with risk, urging stations to listen to and empower younger programmers -- and LISTEN to them!

Tracy also discusses the importance of changing our revenue models, suggesting that radio stations move away from traditional ads and explore alternative streams

He envisions the evolution of traditional radio by leveraging unique strengths and adapting to digital platforms and podcasts, providing a roadmap for staying competitive in a rapidly changing media landscape.

Additionally, Tracy introduces Radio Content Pro, a groundbreaking tool that uses AI to enhance radio programming by curating targeted content and significantly boosting audience engagement. This episode is packed with forward-thinking strategies and practical advice, making it a must-listen for anyone interested in the future of radio and media.

See Tracy's AI Webinar HERE

Check out Radio Content Pro today!

One Minute Martinizing by David Martin

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Transcript
Tracy:

Most stations are becoming relatively safer and

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taking fewer chances than ever.

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So I think radio needs to get a lot

more provocative, a lot more emotionally

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connected and a lot more interesting.

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VO: BRANDwidth on Demand rebooting radio

with a different take on all radio can be.

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Tracy: Nobody's innovating.

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Nobody's doing something that.

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Everyone agrees this makes sense and

this will work, and nobody will do it.

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VO: Now your guides through the

mediamorphosis, David Martin, and author

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of the book, BRANDwidth on Demand,

media branding coach, Kipper McGee.

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Dave: Tracy Johnson is a

legendary radio consultant with

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over 30 years in the industry.

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He's famous for his innovative

methods of boosting audiences

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and revenue at the same time.

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Tracy's helped numerous radio

stations achieve great success.

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top market positions.

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He has a knack for creating

compelling content and for

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improving listener experiencing.

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He has a knack for creating

compelling content and

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improving listener experiences.

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It's made him a go to advisor

for radio pros around the world.

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Tracy's insights and strategies are

constantly shaping the future of

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radio, ensuring stations stay relevant

and engaging in what is obviously

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an ever changing media landscape.

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Today, he's here to share something

that could change your life.

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No, really.

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Brandwith On Demand is proud

to welcome Tracy Johnson.

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Kipper: Hey, Tracy.

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Hey, Tracy.

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Tracy: Thank you.

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It's good.

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It's good to be talking

with you, Dave and Kipper.

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It's a pleasure to be on.

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Kipper: So question, you've been doing

a lot of stuff, including, uh, all

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the recent conventions and whatnot.

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What are some of the key trends

you're observing in radio programming,

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especially over the past year,

year and a half, two years.

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How should young program director,

content manager, whatever you

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want to call them, how should

they be adapting to those changes?

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Tracy: That's a really

complicated question, Kipper.

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Kipper: That's why I asked you.

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Tracy: I'll give you my overview on it.

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I think that radio programming has

fallen backward over the past few years.

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Not because it has declined

in quality or approach, but

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because it hasn't moved forward.

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In quality and approach in Dave's very

complimentary and flattering intro,

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talked about how I've been instrumental

in keeping radio stations relevant.

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And I appreciate that.

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But I don't think it's important to

make radio stations relevant today.

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I think radio stations

are already relevant.

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Everybody knows what to expect from them.

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Relevant is no longer enough.

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We have to be much more top

of mind because if you look

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at all of the statistics, time

spent listening is going down.

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Occasions are going down.

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If you look at the rating services,

they are having a harder and harder

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time recruiting a sample that will

participate with the rating system.

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And the reason is because there are fewer

and fewer people who are using radio.

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And I think that the reason

is because radio programming

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has gotten more conservative.

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By comparison to the other

media and the comparison I draw

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is, uh, to network television.

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Network television is just

as well produced and well

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written as it has ever been.

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But if you go to some of the streaming

services and watch some of the

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original series on Apple TV or Hulu

or Netflix or Peacock or any of the

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other services and then come back and

watch a network television, uh, series.

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It's not very interesting anymore.

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Yeah.

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The networks are still competing

NBC versus ABC versus CBS are

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competing for market share through

a rating system instead of.

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Relevance or importance

or top of mind awareness.

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And I think the same thing is happening

with radio programming today where

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radio stations and broadcasters

are measuring their success and how

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well we're doing against other radio

stations, not peeding for attention.

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And we are competing with

so many other things.

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It's a, we're in an attention battle for

top of mind awareness yet in doing so

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most stations are becoming relatively

safer and taking fewer chances than ever.

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So, uh, I think radio needs to get a lot

more provocative, a lot more emotionally

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connected and a lot more interesting.

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Dave: Well, Tracy, how do you see

the role of radio evolving then?

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What's the next step for radio?

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Tracy: Well, one of the things Kipper

mentioned is what you would say to

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young programmers that are coming in.

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And I, what I would say to

young programmers are be bold.

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And I would say to legacy broadcasters.

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Is, listen to them.

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Listen to them and take when, when the

three of us were young programmers in our

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twenties programming radio stations, they

kind of gave us the keys to the radio

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station and said, go, make it sound great.

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Kipper: Right...

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Tracy: and we were connected with what the

audience was responding to at that time.

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But if you get a young programmer

in place now, someone without.

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Decades of experience and wisdom

and knowledge in the way that

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traditional radio views such

things, nobody listens to them.

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It's execute the format that you're

given, execute the plan that the

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court, that the company is setting

forth, basically saying, learn to

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do it our way and don't screw up.

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As opposed to go create something

magical that can happen and

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attract a new audience to it.

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And I think that there's been

a creativity drain that is kind

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of creating as a self fulfilling

prophecy that nobody's taking any

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meaningful steps to be more engaging.

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Dave: Risk averse.

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Yeah,

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Tracy: Risk aversion is what's

happening everywhere on radio.

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Kipper: Yeah.

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And sadly, I have heard the position

of program director be referred to

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in the past week as implementer.

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Tracy: Administrator and executor.

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Kipper: Yeah.

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Yeah.

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And that is exactly what you're talking

about, which is very frightening.

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Cause if it weren't for the crazy cats,

like the Norm WIner's at XRT and the

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Jim Kerr's and some of those folks

all the way back, it could have been a

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pretty, uh, it could be pretty rough.

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Tracy: Yeah.

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Well, if you play that out.

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Look what happens.

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You end up with a talent drain

because you get the truly innovative,

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creative programmers and personalities

who get into radio because they

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think it's going to be exciting and

they're going to make a difference.

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They find out that they can't.

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I'll just go start a YouTube channel.

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Instead.

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I'll start a podcast.

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Instead.

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I'll start being a video streamer instead,

because these are creative people who have

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other opportunities and other options.

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In many cases, they are, they're

more creatively challenging.

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And at the same time, a lot of times

they're more lucrative financially because

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broadcast budgets aren't getting larger.

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They're getting smaller.

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Kipper: Absolutely.

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So with the rise of all of those things

from digital platforms to podcasts

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and, everything else that's out there.

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How do you see the

traditional role of radio?

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Not how it's going to evolve, but

how would you like to see it evolve?

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Tracy: I would like to see it

change the model for how radio

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stations make their money.

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Uh, because I, this all comes

back to how the account executives

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go out and sell advertising.

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And we're still selling 30 and

60 second ads to media buyers

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who are buying traditional media.

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And they're all speaking the same language

that we've been speaking for 50 years.

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Here's our spreadsheet.

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Here's what our ratings are.

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Here's how we're doing

against the other stations.

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Don't buy these other radio stations.

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Buy ours instead.

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We're good.

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They're bad.

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And the net effect of that at agencies

all over the world is Man, every radio

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station comes in here and tells me how

bad all the other radio stations are.

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It must mean that they're all bad.

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Kipper: Yeah, I don't listen to it myself.

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So why would I?

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Tracy: Yeah, and there's got to be a

better story to tell than going in and

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saying, here's how we're doing in the

ratings against other radio stations.

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And most radio stations

still have a very large QM.

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And in most cases, they've got a

relatively high percentage of that QM

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that are P1s or fans of their station

that we can have an influence on.

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We need to tell the story about

the value of that audience.

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And I also think that there has got to

be a come a time where broadcasters are

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proud of what radio is, which is a media.

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That appeals mostly to a more mature

audience, 45 plus, probably even

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55 plus, but you still have sales

departments who go into agencies and

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basically apologize for appealing

to anyone over the age of 54.

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We're still talking about 25-54 media

buys, and if you do the research, the

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people over 55 control a disproportionate

amount of spending that happens in

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North America today, and they're

the ones who love radio the most.

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Kipper: Absolutely, and Fidelity

and Schwab don't mind reaching them.

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Tracy: Oh, nor does Mercedes.

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Look at the artists, the music

artists who have sold their libraries

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over the last few years and the

hundreds of millions of dollars.

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They're selling those libraries to

who do they appeal to 55 plus the

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Rolling Stones can get hundreds of

dollars per ticket for a concert tour.

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How much does a new up and coming band?

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They can't get nearly

that amount of money.

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As the legacy bands that are

appealing to fans with deeper

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pockets and radio has those people.

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We just need to tell that story

and tell that story differently.

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Instead of telling it the way

that the ratings services have

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positioned it to, to agencies.

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Dave: Yeah, there hasn't been

a lot of innovation in, uh, The

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sales department, that's for sure.

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Tracy: No, there hasn't.

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And I go back when I was managing my group

of stations here in San Diego, 20 years

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ago, I pulled out of the broadcast group

here and all the stations got together and

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said, how are we going to promote radio?

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And I pulled out of it because.

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We would all have these wonderful

meetings about how we're going to raise

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the profile of the media in San Diego.

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And then the next day, everybody was

out saying, Hey, don't buy this station

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because they're they're no good.

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We're good.

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And I said, this is ridiculous.

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We can't have a meeting one day

talking about how we're going to

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re rising tide lifts, all boats.

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And everybody goes out the next

day and trashes each other.

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Dave: Good point.

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No, it's an excellent point.

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Tracy: And we wouldn't do that.

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And they would not stop doing it.

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So I just pulled out of that because

we told our story differently.

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Dave: And we're going to talk

about younger audiences, I guess.

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So Tracy, how can stations better

connect with a younger audience?

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We've talked about all these

folks that are 55 and older

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and radio does an excellent job

there, but what about the future?

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Tracy: Well, there's very

few broadcasters who.

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would disagree with the statement that

commercials on the radio are a problem

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in attracting younger audiences, but

nobody's willing to do anything about it.

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And until somebody is willing to

do something about it, we're not

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going to get younger audiences.

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I found in focus groups,

younger listeners.

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Really aren't angry at radio.

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They don't dislike radio.

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They just have no use for it

because every time they turn it on,

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there's commercials on all the time.

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And then when they when

the commercials come on one

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station, they're okay with that.

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They're going to tune out.

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And when they tune out,

they go to another station.

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But every station, the markets

bow tied at exactly the same time.

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So the impression we give them is that

every station plays too many commercials.

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It's just all at once.

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And after a while, it's that fatigue that

sets in and they decide radios, not for

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me, they play way too many commercials.

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And that is true.

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That's logically true that radio

stations all do play too many

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commercials, but we make it sound like

we play even more than we actually do

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because of the way we use the radio.

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So we got to fix that.

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We got to fix, we got to

stop chasing Nielsen ratings.

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Or whatever the ratings are,

raise our ratings in in Europe.

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We gotta stop chasing those

ratings and chase fans.

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We gotta go from how can we get

another quarter hour of listening

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out of this meter respondent to how

can we build more fans for the brand?

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And that's a very different

programming proposition.

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And when we start looking at how can

we can build a larger fan base, I think

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we have the potential of bringing some

younger people back to spending more time

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with the radio, because again, they're

not against listening to the radio.

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They like having the option.

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They just.

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We just do a lot of things that make

it hard for them to listen a lot.

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Kipper: Indeed.

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So looking ahead, turning the coin, what

do you think will be the most significant

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changes and opportunities for people

in radio in the next decade or so?

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Tracy: I think there that radio is fast

approaching a tipping point that will

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cause radical change to how stations

operate, how they monetize their brands

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and how they promote themselves and pro

and program themselves to an audience.

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And I don't know exactly what that's

going to look like, but I think that

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if you look at the big companies

who continue to cut budgets where

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there's no more budgets to cut.

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And they still keep finding ways that

they started cutting into the bone

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of these radio stations years ago.

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I don't know how they can keep coming

up and looking for another 7 percent

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or 10 percent to take out of it.

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They are getting down to taking

out the very heart of what radio

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stations offer to the audience.

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And when it gets painful enough,

A completely different approach

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is going to have to set in.

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And what that could lead to a renaissance

of the medium and a renaissance of some of

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these brands, because the old traditional

models are no longer going to work.

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There's a lot of markets in top

10 and top 15, top 20 markets.

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Where national buys have almost completely

disappeared because there are no

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stations in those markets who qualify

from an average quarter hour standpoint

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to get on national buys anymore.

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Not the average quarter hour share, the

average quarter hour rating, because

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time spent listening and QM have dropped

to the point where it's not worth it.

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And then there's so much

national inventory in the market.

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Right.

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From barter opportunities that the

rate on barter has come way down.

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So there, there is a huge swelling

problem of declining revenues and lack of

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innovation to, to turn that back around.

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And when it gets painful enough,

somebody is going to do something

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interesting and innovative, or the

are going to be a lot of stations

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that go dark one at one or the other.

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So what opportunities are there?

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I think there are some really

talented programmers and

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personalities who have amazing skills.

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They know how to tell stories.

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They know how to motivate audiences.

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They know how to drive a product.

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They have all the skills.

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That digital platforms are

looking for and are hungry for.

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It's just applying

those in different ways.

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And I think there's tremendous

opportunities that are

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out there outside of.

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The loudspeaker that is

a broadcast transmitter.

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It's just a matter of if the really

smart ones are looking for ways to apply

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those skills differently and by managing

and controlling their own content.

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Kipper: Very good.

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Okay.

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Dave: Excellent point.

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We can all learn something

from Tracy Johnson.

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What a guy.

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Hey, Stony, you'd love to hear

from, we'd love to hear from you.

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Send your suggestions to our

email show at brandwithondemand.

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com or reach out to us on social

BRANDwidth on Demand plus on

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Instagram, Facebook, and X

that's BRANDwidth, P L U S.

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BRANDwidthPLUS.

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Kipper: And if you're new to the

podcast, we want to say welcome.

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We appreciate your listening and we want

to make sure you also hit that follow

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button, wherever you get your podcasts.

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And if you've been with us

for a while, please subscribe.

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Feel free to tell a friend, Randwith On

Demand, wherever you get your podcasts.

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Dave: Coming up, Tracy Johnson

explains a brand new show prep tool

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that also helps with on air delivery,

social media posts, and a lot more.

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Spot1: I'm a music director

at any radio station USA.

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I do a five hour shift,

hours of production, live

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appearances out the Yazoo.

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And oh yeah, my PD just heard two

slow songs back to back followed

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by three of the same artist.

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My station sounds like a dumpster fire.

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If you have any other music

suggestions, Scheduling software.

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This could be you.

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Musicmaster and your station will sound

like a well curated entertainment machine

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and you could avoid mayhem like me.

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Details at musicmaster.

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com

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VO: Exploring media

evolution in real time.

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BRANDwidth on Demand.

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Dave: We are talking with

broadcast innovator, Tracy Johnson.

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Focusing this time on a brand new

tool that your station's really going

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to want, especially if you're still

wondering how to harness the power

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of chat, GPT, and all that AI stuff.

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Tracy, would you please explain to us

what Radio Content Pro is all about?

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Tracy: I got involved with Radio Content

Pro a couple of years ago when I was

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asked by a company to help them develop

content for AI voices and AI bots.

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And we worked on that for about six

months and we really nailed the content

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part of it and that has developed and

turned into a team of developers who

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created AI bots that go all over the

internet, 24 hours a day, seven days

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a day, 365 days a year and curate.

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Targeted content that is customized

for a variety of formats and brands.

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There are currently seven products

in all, and two more that are coming

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for Hispanic radio that'll be out

here in the next two or three weeks,

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but the bots curate the content.

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So they'll analyze everything

that's in an article or a post.

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And then curate it in 12 to 14 different

ways for radio stations to be able to

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use it, to benefit what they do on the

air, online, on social media, gives

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their personalities and all their content

creators, unprecedented power to create

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original entertainment, original content.

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Kipper: So with all of this information

flying at me, like I'm Can you explain

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how you break it down and make it

usable for people on the station level?

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Tracy: No problem.

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We've got a product that's targeted

to CHR and hot AC stations.

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It's called a radio content pro or RCP

buzz one for rock, which we call edge.

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Another is for Mainstream

AC, we call it Mainstream.

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One for Christian formats,

we call RCP Spirit.

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Another one is for Hip Hop and

Rhythmic CHR, it's RCP Hip Hop.

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Then there is one for News

Talk that has recently come

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out, it's RCP Info and Country.

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And then the two new ones are going

to be two different services for

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different versions of Hispanic radio.

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And we have more coming.

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We have a classic rock,

classic hits coming.

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We've got classic R& B.

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Urban coming as well.

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So there's something for every format and

then inside the format prompts that are

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able to curate that content specifically

for the brand or for the format that

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you're in, you get some specific, uh,

content based on your personality type,

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whether you're edgy, mainstream, or family

friendly on every single piece of content.

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And we've just added a new bot.

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That will personalize it even more

specifically for the individual

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personality, where you can take

any piece of content, any tease.

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Any news story any response, any

blog posts that is in radio content

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pro and personalize it to get

as specific as you want with it.

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Kipper: So if I'm doing a radio

show and I want to have it focus on

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certain things, how do I tell it what

I want to look at and what are the

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things I will get as the end product?

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Tracy: The story that I'm excited

about right now just came to me this

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morning from one of our RCP info

affiliates that's been using it for

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about two weeks and said that what he

loves about it is the sidekick feature.

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That's the personalized AI bot sidekick

lives in the bottom right corner

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of every screen and you can click

on it and it opens up a dialogue.

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You could say something like, I'm looking

to be more provocative with this content.

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Can you give me some more phone topics

that will anger this type of listener?

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And it'll take that

topic and it'll juice it.

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It'll make it more provocative.

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Or another great use for that is

if you're a good news station,

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have you got a good news feature?

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You're the glass is three quarters full.

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Like if you're in a Christian format or

a mainstream AC, you can take even the

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most negative stories that are coming

out and tell sidekick, I'm looking

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for a positive spin on this story.

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Find a nugget of information that

can be a good news story and tell me

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how I can share this with my audience

to make them feel good about it.

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I mean, it comes back in just

seconds with six, eight, 10

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different pieces of content.

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That the two things that I got

from this morning is one is

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how Sidekick localizes content.

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So if I'm in San Diego, I

could type in to Sidekick.

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I want you to take this.

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These topics and make them local for my

audience here, and it'll start dropping

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in local employers and celebrities and

landmarks and businesses and neighborhoods

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and communities and customizing the

content to your community, which is

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really powerful This morning, aBRANDwidth.

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RCP info personality texted me and

said, I've been using this on my talk

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:

show for the last couple of weeks.

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And what I'm doing now is

asking it to argue with me.

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I'll tell it what my point

of view or my perspective is.

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And I'll ask, I'll tell sidekick, tell me

all the reasons why I'm wrong about this.

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And it brings up all the talking points,

all the provocative talking points

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that he wants to get his audience into

when he goes on and does his talk show.

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And he says it's the most valuable part

that he's been able to find with it.

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And I never thought

about using it that way.

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So I'm excited about all the different

ways that our users are starting

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to come up with to apply Sidekick.

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Kipper: Hey, some great stuff, Tracy.

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Thanks for sharing it.

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Dave: Yeah, great stuff.

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Tracy: So now's the time if

you want to put AI to work

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for you, Not instead of you.

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Here's a recap.

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Spot2: Imagine having your own prep

team working nonstop, a producer picking

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:

the best content, a copywriter, making

every story hit home and a marketer

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finding new ways to grow your audience.

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All while a digital team keeps your feeds

fresh with posts, updates, and videos.

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What if these pros were available

24 seven market experience?

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:

Exclusive and affordable

for your radio station.

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:

Power up your content before the

competition does with Radio Content Pro.

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:

See the demo in action.

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:

Just scroll down the show

notes or visit radiocontentpro.

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:

com slash BRANDwidth on Demand

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Dave: our thanks to Tracy Johnson.

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He's always got some fresh and

innovative thinking going on Kipper,

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a special BRANDwidth on Demand Link.

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:

To radio content pro is in the show notes.

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:

Just scroll down on your phone or

simply visit radio content pro slash

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:

BRANDwidth on Demand B R A N D W I B T H.

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:

Kipper: As always, we want to thank

our exec producer, Cindy Huber, and

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:

associate producer, Hannah B, for booking.

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Dave: That's a wrap, Kipper.

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In One Minute Martinizing we'll

be talking about intention.

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All it's important stuff.

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What do you intend?

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I'm Dave Martin.

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Kipper: And I'm Kipper McGee.

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May all your BRANDwidth be Wide!.

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About the Podcast

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Brandwidth On Demand
The 15 Minute Podcast About Making Great Radio

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About your host

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Kipper McGee