Episode 202

Engage And Retain: 5 Steps Revealed - David Moore, KSLX, Phoenix

In this episode, David Moore, Brand and Content Director/Operations Manager for KSLX/KDKB/KAZG, Hubbard Radio Phoenix, shares insights from over three decades in radio.

He discusses the essential skills needed to thrive in today’s rapidly evolving industry, the importance of staying "plugged in," and the evolving role of radio program managers.

David also highlights the power of talent in creating engaging content and offers strategies for overcoming challenges and fostering collaboration with sales teams. A great episode for valuable advice and strategies from one of the industry’s most experienced professionals.

Visit: David Moore - LinkedIn KSLX - Facebook KSLX - X (Twitter)

Hubbard Broadcasting/Phoenix

One Minute Martinizing by David Martin

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Mentioned in this episode:

visit: www.throwbacknation.com

Transcript
David Moore:

A lot of my talent will tell you, what are they doing

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on the other side of the speakers?

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I talk a lot about you're speaking to

somebody who may be driving for DoorDash.

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Remember that.

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These are people who are working jobs that

luckily we're not working, and it's tough.

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It's still pretty glamorous on this side.

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VO: BRANDwidth on Demand.

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Rebooting radio with a different

take on all radio can be.

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David Moore: Every one of the digital

companies, Apple and Amazon, they're

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all going to create radio, right?

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Every time the same thing happens.

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They create radio and then they

go, Oh, wow, this is really hard.

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Nobody's paying attention.

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And gosh, it's not just like

throwing a bunch of songs on a feed.

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I can't quite figure out why they

don't want to listen to our classic

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rock feed that's so well done because

it's all available everywhere.

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You gotta do things that touch people's

hearts, that they give a crap about.

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VO: Now your guides through the

mediamorphosis, David Martin, and

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author of the book, BRANDwidth,

media branding coach, Kipper McGee.

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Dave Martin: Well this time

we're joined by a veteran of the

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broadcast wars with over three

decades of broadcast experience.

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And by the way, almost

all of it, a big success.

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Yeah.

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As the program director for

Hubbard's Classic Rock 100.

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7 KSLX in Phoenix, he has been

instrumental in driving the

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station's success, including

the successful transition of the

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Mark and the Leander Paul morning

show to Dave and Mahoney show.

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Previously, he served as operations

manager at Intercom in Madison,

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overseeing multiple stations, all

successful, held key roles as program

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director of WFYV in Jacksonville.

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And W O C T in Baltimore, among others

is innovative approach and commitment to

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excellence have earned him numerous awards

and nominations, including accolades from

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the New York festivals, radio awards,

Canadian radio awards, so many more.

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We won't even have time to mention them.

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We want to welcome David Moore.

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Hey, David.

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Kipper.

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Glad to be here.

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Kipper McGee: We are glad to have you.

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So with all the changes and constants

that we're going through right now in the

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industry, what key skills do you think

are essential for success, whether on

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air or in management in today's industry?

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David Moore: You know, things

change quickly, more rapidly

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than ever before in the business.

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And I think being plugged in, knowing

what's going on asking questions.

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I read a lot.

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I listen a lot.

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I want to know what's going on.

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I think that the industry has never been

more challenged at the same time, it's in

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many ways, never been more interesting.

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I look back to when I programmed Arrow

in Nashville back in the mid nineties

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and the Arrow format was very rigid,

very it was very modal if you will.

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And I can remember I did

three hours on the air.

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Scheduled some music, wrote

a few promos and whatnot.

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I was kind of done for the day.

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You know, it was kind of dull.

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I don't have days like that.

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I haven't had days like

that the last two decades.

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Those days are gone.

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I think that if you're doing it

now, if you've been able to succeed

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now, you're probably pretty good.

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You've had to keep up.

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And I work for Hubbard where we have

tools and things that, that help.

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I mean, you know, we're,

we're pretty plugged in.

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Are you studying the tech survey?

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Are you studying share of ear?

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Because man, there's a lot of data there.

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Are you really digging into

your programmer's package?

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All those kinds of things.

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You know what I look for in that stuff.

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I'm looking for threading.

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I'm looking for, okay, what does it mean?

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16 percent of the KSLX audience

in the tech survey is engaged with

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Spotify for an hour or more a week.

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I don't know what that

means, but I do know that.

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I find sometimes when I talk to

programmers that maybe they're

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not doing as much of that as

they should, what that's worth.

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Dave Martin: Well, Dave, titles have

changed from program director to brand

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manager to content czar and probably

some new ones we haven't even heard of.

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In reality, how has the role

of radio program manager

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evolved over the past decade?

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You said there has been some big

changes in the last two decades.

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What changes do you

anticipate in the future?

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David Moore: Well, you've got to

be super plugged into revenue.

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You need to be able to work with AEs

and sales managers and promotions

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teams and digital teams to create

opportunities that, you know, I

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look for stuff that the audience

is into that we can make money on.

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For example, on KSLX, there's some

sort of special weekend every weekend.

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That is, you know, it could be something

like a block party weekend or whatever,

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but it might be we do these things called

inflation busting winning weekends.

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And those are where you went up concert

package to three or four concerts at once.

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So on something like that, for example,

one that requires knowing about,

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Hey, is inflation still a thing?

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Yeah.

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It's still a thing.

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Is that sort of taking something like,

Hey, we've got some concert tickets.

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You know, we give away concert tickets

all the time, obviously, so we turn

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that into something that is a little

more than just your standard giveaway.

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I think going forward, we compete

against our other radio brands, but we're

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obviously competing against all of the

other audio sources that are available.

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One of the things that is interesting

to me today is that every one of the

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pure plays or every one of the digital

companies, Apple and Amazon, they're

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all going to create radio, right?

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And every time the same thing happens,

they create radio and then they

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go, Oh, wow, this is really hard.

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Nobody's paying attention.

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And gosh, it's not just like

throwing a bunch of songs on a feed.

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I can't quite figure out why they

don't want to listen to our classic

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rock feed that's so well done because

it's all available everywhere.

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You know, you got to do things

that touch people's hearts

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that they give a crap about.

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And back in the day, 30 years ago,

You can get away with having your

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music right and doing some promotions

and you'll probably be successful.

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Kipper McGee: Right.

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So speaking of success, what

other strategies are you finding

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successful to engage and retain your

audience, especially given the high

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competition between radio and other?

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David Moore: The first and

foremost thing is talent.

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Um, Bye.

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You've got to have, it's very challenging.

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I mean, look in every market,

there's probably room for, I mean,

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here we have the mountain that

really doesn't have talent on it.

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It has guys named Mountain

Man Jay, and it does well.

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And there's generally room.

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For a non-talent jukeboxy radio station.

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That's not what we're doing.

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Or do I think that that's viable

for basically more than one

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or two stations at a market.

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So here it's the right talent.

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That's the secret sauce.

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You mentioned going from Mark and

Neanderthal to Dave and Mahoney.

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That was when Mark retired you know,

Mark and Neanderthal were successful.

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It felt like the show was in a

really good place at that point.

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We'd worked really hard on it, but

you know, Mark was done and we had

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an opportunity to hire Dave and

Mahoney, so we brought in a show

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that is obviously very different,

but also a high level show.

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Additionally.

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Not only is it a good show, but

I don't like hiring assholes.

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And they're not, and

they're really good people.

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They have a great attitude.

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To give you an example of what kind

of people these guys are, they had

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their one year anniversary recently.

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And so.

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They brought in an omelet bar for the

AEs because they've made so much money on

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the AEs selling them into endorsements.

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Now, I don't know a lot of morning

shows that would do something like that.

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I'll tell you this, those guys can't

get out of the way of endorsements.

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And the AEs love them.

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That is how you get successful.

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Kipper McGee: Right.

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David Moore: There's not

a bunch of crap going on.

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That is partially done

because, we have Trip Reeb.

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Trip's a great leader.

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It's that kind of an operation.

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Dave Martin: Well, David, you've had

more than your share of significant

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challenges during your career.

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How have you overcome them?

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Boiling it all down.

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What advice can you give folks

when they're running into

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significant challenges and problems?

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David Moore: I'll tell you what I do, and

I don't know that this is for everyone.

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When I get challenged.

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When I get into a zone of where I feel

like I have an insurmountable issue,

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a problem I'm not coming up with an

answer to, I do a couple of things.

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One is, I mean, I read a lot.

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I try to read something that says

this is how you fix this problem.

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I've had talents in the past where

I just, I couldn't quite figure

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out how to get through to them.

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I didn't feel like I was coaching them

or leading them correctly and maybe

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they just weren't buying into it.

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I just wasn't getting through.

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So they seem to have sort

of an issue with authority.

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You know what I mean?

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By the way, not unusual in someone who's

chosen to sit in a little room and play

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songs and talk themselves in between.

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And we all, we are

doing this for a reason.

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This, there are other ways to make a

living that might be a little more stable.

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But in that case, I might go, okay, if

this person, maybe they've had a lot

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of childhood trauma, maybe they don't

trust, maybe they've had a lot of crappy

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programmers and things like that, they

have to know that I care about them and

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that I trust them and stuff like that.

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The biggest challenges, for example,

that I've personally encountered,

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almost all of them are the same.

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You've got a radio

station that is messed up.

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And you've got to fix it.

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Sometimes you take over a radio station

and you're just the latest poor sucker

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that got stuck with that thing, right?

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There are brands like that and you

got to manage your expectations,

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but you also have to, you have

to live in the real world.

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What can you do with it?

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I would say this, I think I'm pretty good

at finding ways of solving these things.

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I think I'm pretty good at identifying.

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Okay.

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If we know this and we know

this, and we know this.

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That probably this is true.

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And we can proceed in terms of what skills

you need to do this job going forward.

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Look, you need to be

plugged into the music.

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And when I say the music,

let me back that up.

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You need to be plugged into the tribe.

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You need to understand your people.

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Here I have three radio stations.

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I have KSLX, my main

station, Classic Rock.

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That's pretty much what I've done.

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I mean, I've scheduled the Joker by

Steve Miller on a radio station since

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1989 every single day, so, so, so I

thank Steve Miller and John Lennon

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and people like that for my career.

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So, you've got to be plugged

into your audience and here, you

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know, we have a classic rock,

but we also have Alt AC, which.

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When I took over all day Z,

it wasn't in great shape.

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And I will tell you, I made a couple

of really big errors on it that

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kept it in bad shape for a while.

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I think we just figured that

out 18 months to two years ago.

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And that was a challenge.

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And the part of the challenge there

is, to not give up, to not overreact.

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And to always remember inside thinkers

are worrying about minutiae and

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things that don't really matter.

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In programming, you gotta put yourself

on the other side of the speakers

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in, in, in that environment, and

from that moment forward, a lot of

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my talent will tell you, I talk about

that all the time, what are they doing

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on the other side of the speakers?

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You're speaking to somebody who

may be driving from DoorDash.

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Remember that these are people

who are working jobs that

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luckily we're not working.

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And it's tough, but still

pretty glamorous on this side.

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Kipper McGee: Well, we know that what we

do is considered show biz, like you said.

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It's got to be a balance

between the show and the biz.

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Can you shed some light

on how you go about that?

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Is that like a quarterly planning thing?

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Is it something you do in

the hallways on the fly?

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How does it work?

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David Moore: I think

it's baked into the DNA.

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Yeah.

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First of all, you have to

have a relationship with your

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sales manager that's good.

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It's easy.

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Bob Weaver is the sales manager for KSLX.

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He's a great guy.

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Susan Karas is our director of sales.

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We have a great relationship.

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You know, we're all rowing

in the same direction.

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Part of it is a credibility thing, right?

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I think that they know that I'm not

going to stand in the way of us making

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revenue provided I can figure out a way

to at least have it do no harm, right?

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You know, I operate on the

hippocratic oath first.

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Okay, we can do that.

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We can make money on it.

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It's not going to harm the radio station.

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I don't know if it's going to work,

but you guys think it'll work.

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And I've once or twice

been wrong about something.

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So maybe this is another time that I

think it won't work and it will, um,

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maybe once or twice or three times.

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And so.

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That's hard if you have a dogmatic

sales manager, who's maybe not

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on the same page, but also, these

sales managers, they've been burned

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by people in this job before too.

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And there's a lot of us who do

this, who maybe are jerks sometimes.

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And I try not to be, maybe they

would say differently, but I

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try not to be a jerk about it.

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And I want us to make money.

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You know what I mean?

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There's nothing sadder than being

at a commercial radio station

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And not having many commercials.

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It's great.

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If you're in Nielsen for a period of

time, ultimately, nobody's going to make

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any money and nobody's going to be happy.

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And again, I'm lucky here.

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I have great AEs, but I have

a great sales management team.

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That's just not the case everywhere.

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Look, I've been in places where

I had a different GM every 18

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months, and that's challenging.

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Dave Martin: One sharp guy, David

Moore from Hubbard in Phoenix.

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Hey, you know, someone we should

interview or a topic we should cover?

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Well, let us know.

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We welcome your suggestions

show@brandwithondemand.com is the

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email show@brandwithondemand.Com

or reach out on social.

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BRANDwidthplus on Instagram,

Facebook and X that's BRAMDwidthPlus

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P L U S BRANDwidth plus.

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Kipper McGee: And if you're new to the

podcast, we are so glad you're here.

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Welcome...

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and be sure to hit the follow button

wherever you get those podcasts.

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And please be sure to tell a

friend BRANDwidth on Demand

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wherever they get podcasts.

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Cause our goal is to assist you

in mastering your audio craft.

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Dave Martin: Coming up, David

Moore shares some advice,

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Spot 1: Stevie Ray Vaughn, one of a kind.

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Special.

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Unique.

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But what made Stevie so special?

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It's the fact that he had a sound in

his head that he needed to get out,

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and he couldn't do it by himself.

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He needed a tool that would connect his

creativity so that he could make the sound

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in his head come out of the speakers.

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The only tool to make that happen

was a:

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through a Fender Super Reverb amp.

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Unbelievable.

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That can be equally as unique and special.

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And music master is the tool you need

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creativity and blow away the competition.

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Go to Musicmaster.

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For more information, Musicmaster.

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Spot 2: Imagine having your

own prep team working nonstop.

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A producer picking the best content,

a copywriter making every story

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hit home, and a marketer finding

new ways to grow your audience.

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All while a digital team keeps your feeds

fresh with posts, updates, and videos.

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What if these pros were available

24 7, market exclusive, and

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affordable for your radio station?

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Power up your content before the

competition does with Radio Content Pro.

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See the demo in action.

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Just scroll down the show notes or

visit radio content pro.com/bandwidth.

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VO: Listen today, lead

tomorrow BRANDwidth On Demand.

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Dave Martin: We are with Dave

Moore today, one of the best

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and brightest in our business.

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Dave, what's the one single best

piece of advice you've ever gotten?

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David Moore: When I interviewed

as an intern at WRIF.

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When I was in college in Detroit, um,

there was a guy named Mark Pasman, who

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was the assistant program director.

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And he went on to be a

programmer for a while.

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I told him when I walked in, I said,

well, I'm working on the college

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station and I've got a job as a board

op at an AM station in the city in

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Detroit like Sunday nights, where I run

the religious programming and stuff.

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And now I want to do this internship.

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And he said, that's really smart.

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Cause you should do everything,

learn everything you can.

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About doing this and

you'll be employed forever.

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If you can do that, if you could

learn all of the parts of the

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businesses, you can and continue

just say yes, say yes to everything.

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And so from that internship, I started

a career and it worked and he was right.

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He was absolutely right.

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The more that you do.

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The better it was.

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So that almost literally on

day one of my career almost.

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So I never forgot it.

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Dave Martin: It's really great advice.

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Now, what's the best advice

you've ever given David?

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David Moore: That's a

really tough question.

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I think the best advice I've given

is to fake it until you make it.

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, you don't necessarily have this

figured out yet in terms of air talent.

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So you're pretty rough here.

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Um, here's what I need you to do.

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I need you to sound like

this person to begin with.

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Do you hear this?

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You hear how Karen D'Alessandro sounds by

the way, Kipper, Karen D'Alessandro and

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I worked together in Detroit and I was

told by the assistant program director,

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you should really sound more like Karen.

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You know, she sounds happy.

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Kipper McGee: Good advice.

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David Moore: Yeah.

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So to try to find the parts of your

personality that are appealing.

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So if you're, quick witted

let's work with that.

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Okay.

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If you are a real music head and you

really are into music knowledge or

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whatever, then let's work with that.

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So in the case of Karen

D'Alessandro, Karen's very energetic.

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Karen's very positive, very up.

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We focus on that, you

know, work with that.

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You can't make a cynical

person, not cynical.

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You can't make.

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An unfunny person.

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Funny.

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I can't coach to woo or charisma but

I can coach to taking those things

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and going, okay let's run with that.

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Dave Martin: Bring out the best in others.

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Right?

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David Moore: Yeah, I guess

that's, yeah, I guess that's it.

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I think I'm pretty good

at helping people do that.

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But in terms of advice like that, like

the advice that Mark Paman gave me.

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I'm not coming up with anything that I

have that I think has been that profound.

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It may be because I never stopped

talking and I just can't remember

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because I just talk constantly.

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So I probably give a lot of advice.

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Dave Martin: Wow.

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We can all learn something

from David Moore Kipper.

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Links to KSLX and more

all in the show notes.

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Just scroll down on your phone

or find it at brandwithondemand.

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com.

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Kipper McGee: Our thanks to executive

producer, Producer Cindy Huber for

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getting everything together here

and to associate producer Hannah

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B for booking And coming up next,

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Steven Goldstein: I think radio has

waited too long to deal with on demand

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strategies in a significant way.

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If you don't build out the next

generation, then you are sorry,

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AM radio or your telephone boards.

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You're just not as important,

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Dave Martin: We can all learn

something from Steve Goldstein,

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the Amplify Media founder and CEO.

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Kipper McGee: And Steve joins us next.

390

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Dave Martin: That's a wrap, Kipper.

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Connecting with the audience in

the moment, that's the topic of

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this week's One Minute Martinizing.

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I'm Dave Martin.

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Kipper McGee: And I'm Kipper McGee.

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May all your BRANDwidth be wide.

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Brandwidth On Demand
The 15 Minute Podcast About Making Great Radio

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Kipper McGee